[Albion] Hürzeler’s (Brighton) Tactics

[Seagull58]

Has Pervis lost his speed, or simply forgotten that he also has defensive duties? Always caught upfield, but then maybe Dunk or Baleba are meant to be covering when he does that?

He's not fit. Could barely run in the second half on Saturday.

 

[Seagull58]

I still think we are integrating a lot of new players. Wieffer will eventually just sit in front of the 2 centre backs and when O'Reilly plays in the middle with Baleba we will be a different proposition. However, until everyone's up to speed, we need to stop the high line.

Who is this O'Reilly you speak of? Did Houghton sign him and put him in the U18s?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I can understand why everyone wants us to stop playing a 'high line', but isn't this fundamental to Hürzeler's underlying strategy ? If you are pressing in the final third with 6/7 players to cause the intended planned chaos there, I don't see how you can have the remaining 3/4 players 30 yards behind them.

I'm not saying the strategy is wrong, but there is certainly some adjustment needed. It's obviously a high risk/reward approach but probably needs some tweaking (he says with some understatement) when playing some of the best teams in the world

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[Weststander]

I can understand why everyone wants us to stop playing a 'high line', but isn't this fundamental to Hürzeler's underlying strategy ? If you are pressing in the final third with 6/7 players to cause the intended planned chaos there, I don't see how you can have the remaining 3/4 players 30 yards behind them.

I'm not saying the strategy is wrong, but there is certainly some adjustment needed. It's obviously a high risk/reward approach but probably needs some tweaking (he says with some understatement) when playing some of the best teams in the world

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The strategy/tactic is covered fairly extensively online, FH isn’t the only one to use this. For example Angie at Spurs, Klopp often a similar high line. Van Der Ven, VVD, Konate, Wijnaldum, Porro, Matip, for example all had great pace.

When the ball is lost and not won back, it requires some (but not all) defenders/midfielders to work as one in covering back. As a unit. Some pace required obviously.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The strategy/tactic is covered fairly extensively online, FH isn’t the only one to use this. For example Angie at Spurs, Klopp often a similar high line. Van Der Ven, VVD, Konate, Wijnaldum, Porro, Matip, for example all had great pace.

When the ball is lost and not won back, it requires some (but not all) defenders/midfielders to work as one in covering back. As a unit. Some pace required obviously.

Did someone say on Saturday that the Webster/Igor change was because Igor was our quickest centre back ? Seeing the way we are now playing I think it's fairly obvious that our signings this summer have lacked a 'quick' centre back (although if we had, they'd probably be injured for the season by now )

So, given what we've got, where is the pace going to come from, Ferdi, Lamptey ? I'm sure Estupinian used to be quite quick

 

[Weststander]

Did someone say on Saturday that the Webster/Igor change was because Igor was our quickest centre back ? Seeing the way we are now playing I think it's fairly obvious that our signings this summer have lacked a 'quick' centre back (although if we had, they'd probably be injured for the season by now )

So, given what we've got, where is the pace going to come from, Ferdi, Lamptey ? I'm sure Estupinian used to be quite quick

NSC’ers have always told us that Webster is lightning quick.

Against Wolves in the cup and Chelsea we saw that’s nowhere quick as pacy forwards. Nor is Dunk.

I think FH will have to adapt tactics, someone posted a new quote where he says he’ll be looking at that.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

NSC’ers have always told us that Webster is lightning quick.

Against Wolves in the cup and Chelsea we saw that’s nowhere quick as pacy forwards. Nor is Dunk.

I think FH will have to adapt tactics, someone posted a new quote where he says he’ll be looking at that.

I think he is the quickest of all our CBs, I’m not sure Igor is TBH….
Webbo also reads the game really well, particularly vs Wolves.

But if you’re having to turn against an on-rushing forward, you’re already at a disadvantage.

I do agree though Fab will have to consider his tactics.

 

[Reddleman]

Our two goals against Chelsea game directly from a high press. If you don’t have a high line you can’t do that. So we may tighten up at the back but will lose goal scoring opportunities.

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Who is this O'Reilly you speak of? Did Houghton sign him and put him in the U18s?

Not quite fair, at least he , out of the new signings, played, albeit for 6 minutes before being crocked by a Sunday league player !

 

[WATFORD zero]

NSC’ers have always told us that Webster is lightning quick.

Against Wolves in the cup and Chelsea we saw that’s nowhere quick as pacy forwards. Nor is Dunk.

I think FH will have to adapt tactics, someone posted a new quote where he says he’ll be looking at that.

I do think he will need to adapt to what he's got, and it's good to see he's open to ideas. He's only managed 6 games in the toughest league so far and hasn't done too badly.

 

[Weststander]

I do think he will need to adapt to what he's got, and it's good to see he's open to ideas. He's only managed 6 games in the toughest league so far and hasn't done too badly.

Would love to see an adaption. I actually thought we were outstanding against Forest, except for the vulnerability to single pass counter attacks last 25 minutes.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I've had a bit more time to look at the highlights and think about the high line some more. I absolutely get it tactically, and although pacey centre backs would be some help, it's more about anticipating the threat.

We haven't conceded because of it per se, but my major problem with it is a psychological one rather than one based on stats or evidence.

Leaving so much space in behind must be an encouragement to the opposition and must have attackers thinking more aggressively than perhaps they would against a lower defensive line. Any quick striker is going to love to see all that space to run in, knowing that a clever bit of movement could give them a clear opportunity to score.

Why give so much encouragement so early and readily? The problem against Chelsea was that what we are doing was obvious and they could smell the opportunity and were aggressively looking to exploit it.

I definitely think there is an argument to de-risk and start lower both in engagement and defensive line early in the game against stronger opposition. You could then then flip to increase both lines and squeeze the opposition more as the game goes on.

I think this is a good summary. The high line/high press does have positives and can lead to goals for us, but it should be deployed as a sub-game plan within a match. Not used for an entire 90 against strong opposition. He needs to coach the team to use the shape of good mid-block. We don’t need to go Royball and drop to our own 18 yard line, but we do need to be able to maintain a defensive shape for periods out of possession in the mid third of the pitch, screening through balls and preventing runners from deep. As others have said, we have plenty of players who are good defenders in more traditional set-ups but in a risky system they are liable to end up looking like they’re useless, which is fundamentally terrible for their confidence. Frankly I’d be amazed if Dunk hasn’t already spoken to FH about it this week.

 

[Seagull58]

Not quite fair, at least he , out of the new signings, played, albeit for 6 minutes before being crocked by a Sunday league player !

No he didn't. O'Riley did.

 

[PlayMoran]

Sorry. Wait. Just a moment. Igor?

Igor would caught the Chelsea forwards after we got caught on halfway?

Have we entered the twilight zone?

Presumably he'd stopped the Forest goal also? Thunder thighs has his qualities but turning on the half way line and catching an opponent who've sprung our offside trap isn't something i've seen him do. Ever.

All you're doing is naming players who aren't faster and I'm pretty sure probably slower and without the many qualities of the player's we're talking about replacing

Sorry, but you just don't get it. You can't have two slow CBs in a high line system. Igor is the only CB with above average pace.

Until a new CB is signed, he's worth a try for a few games. But that won't happen.

Even if Brighton drop 10 yards, a CB with pace is still needed.

You're just making assumptions to suit your tunnel vision. Don't even know half the players I mentioned. Classic.

 

[PlayMoran]

Dunk is likely to play every game if fit over Igor because he is a vastly superior player! It's difficult for Igor to get a look in because he's not as good.

Dunk isn't all that anymoe though. van Hecke is the vastly superior CB now. Unfortunately for him, he's not blessed with raw speed either.

A LCB with more pace who can cover in behind is essential next summer. It's doubtful that Igor will be the long term solution, but is worth a try.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Sorry, but you just don't get it. You can't have two slow CBs in a high line system. Igor is the only CB with above average pace.

Until a new CB is signed, he's worth a try for a few games. But that won't happen.

Even if Brighton drop 10 yards, a CB with pace is still needed.

You're just making assumptions to suit your tunnel vision. Don't even know half the players I mentioned. Classic.

It was a third of them ive never heard of. It would have been tough for me to have only heard of a half. As you named three.

If I was to guess who the slowest player in our first team squad I’d say it was likely Igor. This whole high line thing has got you and others making some incredible mental contortions. Dunk and JPVH are not particularly slow, given they are 6 foot 4, 15 stone centre backs. They are comparable pace-wise to probably every other mid table centre back

All the players you mentioned (apart from the 18 year old who ive never heard of) are not significantly faster. Even if they could edge our current lot in a 30 yard dash, it would make not a jot of difference. The goals we’re conceding are because the attackers are getting the run on them from the half way line. That headstart and initial momentum is meaning they are yards ahead of our defenders by the time they are in a shooting distance. That would be the case also if we had Minteh and Mitoma at centre back

The only affect going out and buying these players you suggest and installing them in the side would have, is that we would have much worse players and much less money

 

[PlayMoran]

It was a third of them ive never heard of. It would have been tough for me to have only heard of a half. As you named three.

If I was to guess who the slowest player in our first team squad I’d say it was likely Igor. This whole high line thing has got you and others making some incredible mental contortions. Dunk and JPVH are not particularly slow, given they are 6 foot 4, 15 stone centre backs. They are comparable pace-wise to probably every other mid table centre back

All the players you mentioned (apart from the 18 year old who ive never heard of) are not significantly faster. Even if they could edge our current lot in a 30 yard dash, it would make not a jot of difference. The goals we’re conceding are because the attackers are getting the run on them from the half way line. That headstart and initial momentum is meaning they are yards ahead of our defenders by the time they are in a shooting distance. That would be the case also if we had Minteh and Mitoma at centre back

The only affect going out and buying these players you suggest and installing them in the side would have, is that we would have much worse players and much less money

Igor clocked in at 34.28 km/h vs Spurs last season. One of the higgest speeds recorded last season. Ogbene was just under 37 km/h.

You made an incorrect assumption and are doubling down on it now. They're all significantly quicker than Dunk.

 

[pigmanovich]

FWIW the new FIFA gives our CBs the following pace scores: 67 for Igor, 59 for Ed Turns, 55 for JPVH, 54 for Veltman (can play RCB), 54 for Webster, and 41 for Dunk. https://www.ea.com/games/ea-sports-fc/ratings?gender=0&team=1808&orderBy=pac:desc Webster's pace score has fallen by 15, Veltman's by 7, and Dunk's by 4.

Edit: Offiah has a pace score of 62.

 

[Weststander]

FWIW the new FIFA gives our CBs the following pace scores: 67 for Igor, 59 for Ed Turns, 55 for JPVH, 54 for Veltman (can play RCB), 54 for Webster, and 41 for Dunk. https://www.ea.com/games/ea-sports-fc/ratings?gender=0&team=1808&orderBy=pac:desc Webster's pace score has fallen by 15, Veltman's by 7, and Dunk's by 4.

Edit: Offiah has a pace score of 62.

Thanks. I can’t get the website filters to work on my iPad, too many ads. What are the pace numbers for:
Van de Ven
Van Dijk
Konate
Stones
Christian Romero

 

[Milano]

If the new main attribute for a CB in our team is pace then play Moder there......