HS2

[Albion Dan]

The actual reality is that people are more than happy with the rail journey time from the North and Midlands to London already so this is highly unlikely to drive new journeys. Journeys will also be priced high to pay for the thing. Therefore the business case is deeply flawed. The same people that did the business case are the very same that created the completely flawed comparitor model for the West Coast franchise fiasco. HS2 is a complete vanity project.

 

[Ernest]

Total waste of money, they've just paid umpteen millions upgrading to WCML to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool etc and you have a very good railway, the money would be far more beneficial locally resignalling Brighton so you can run directly east to west, 12 coaches to Falmer and building the new Brighton mainline to London as well as comparable projects throughout the country.

 

[Peter Grummit]

Despite the tanking economy in the last few years, passenger numbers on the railway continue to rise. The main rationale for HS2 is that it is the best way to provide more capacity, by taking the long-distance fast trains off the existing overcrowded bottlenecked lines. Take an example, Milton Keynes. Huge growth area, but there is no capacity to put on more trains that stop there. HS2 will work best if the 'classic' train network is re-prioritised to meet this market. In this way, the benefits of the project are not just confined to businessmen on long-distance trains.

On fares, they have said it will be affordable. Nothing published yet (well it is a way off) but the reality is they will have lots more seats and the same principles will apply as now. At peak times, tickets will be a lot more expensive than off-peak. But the marginal costs of filling those spare seats when it is quiet is low, so it will still be worth offering cheap advance tickets, either on the HS2 trains or on the classic existing network.

Sure there are risks, but railway demand has been growing strongly for 20 years now. I'm no fan of the coalition, but it's good that the politicians are brave enough to look beyond the 5 year electoral period and try and build for the long-term.

PG

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

It is claimed on another Forum that the planned route goes straight through Crewe Alexandra' Ground.

Would need a new stadium but don't have to worry for another 10 years at least. They want to locate the maintenance depot for HS2 in the area too

 

[yxee]

Have they said anything about the day to day operation once the infrastructure is built? Are the government going to sink however many billions into this, only to let some profiteering franchise come in at the last minute to get huge rewards for almost no risk?

I suppose the answer to that question will help me decide whether I'm for/against...

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Can't that happening myself,the ground already backs onto the station and WCML etc. View attachment 39090

Apparently Crewe train station is to be upgraded for HS2 , if the land is needed it will all be done through compulsory purchase orders.

 

[Beach Hut]

Complete white elephant - just look at the Javelin service from Kent to St Pancras which is too expensive.

What is more bizarre is if we were in France those places where HS2 did not stop wold protest !

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

From my knowledge of inorganic chemistry I think you will find it is H2S.

TNBA

TTF

 

[beorhthelm]

Complete white elephant - just look at the Javelin service from Kent to St Pancras which is too expensive.

What is more bizarre is if we were in France those places where HS2 did not stop wold protest !

eh? isnt this just like the TGV which just goes betwen major cities? (which everyone say is so great and why do we do the same)

 

[Beach Hut]

eh? isnt this just like the TGV which just goes betwen major cities? (which everyone say is so great and why do we do the same)

Wait till you see what the fares will cost, it will completely ensure no-one can afford to travel on it.

Rail fares are spiralling out of control now and need to be reduced therefore requires everyone subsidise them otherwise it is too expensive.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Apparently Crewe train station is to be upgraded for HS2 , if the land is needed it will all be done through compulsory purchase orders.

Maybe so,but look at North Sussex Beeching closed the Three Bridges-East Grinstead-Tunbridge Wells route and today when you see the traffic heading west to Crawley/Gatwick/EG etc you to wonder is not a Forest Row to Three Bridges line a better way to reduce traffic on the roads ?

 

[wunt be druv]

Build it now,I know a fair few people will have their homes etc. affected but I did hear on the news that they will be offered "generous" compensation packages.Also the money spent and jobs created can only do the economy a pile of good.

 

[Cosmic Joker]

Despite the tanking economy in the last few years, passenger numbers on the railway continue to rise. The main rationale for HS2 is that it is the best way to provide more capacity, by taking the long-distance fast trains off the existing overcrowded bottlenecked lines. Take an example, Milton Keynes. Huge growth area, but there is no capacity to put on more trains that stop there. HS2 will work best if the 'classic' train network is re-prioritised to meet this market. In this way, the benefits of the project are not just confined to businessmen on long-distance trains.

On fares, they have said it will be affordable. Nothing published yet (well it is a way off) but the reality is they will have lots more seats and the same principles will apply as now. At peak times, tickets will be a lot more expensive than off-peak. But the marginal costs of filling those spare seats when it is quiet is low, so it will still be worth offering cheap advance tickets, either on the HS2 trains or on the classic existing network.

Sure there are risks, but railway demand has been growing strongly for 20 years now. I'm no fan of the coalition, but it's good that the politicians are brave enough to look beyond the 5 year electoral period and try and build for the long-term.
PG

Very much this, the benefits for freeing up capacity on the existing main lines by shifting all the fastest expresses to HS2 are the most overlooked part of the proposal. At present there are 8 to 10 express trains per hour leaving Euston for destinations in the North West, West Midlands and Scotland and at peak times a lot of the seats are used up by commuters to Milton Keynes and Rugby, reducing the numbers of seats and putting up prices for people making longer distance journeys. It's similar with the East Coast line and Peterborough, commuters using up seats on services for Leeds, Newcastle and Edinburgh. Move the fastest long distance trains to HS2 and the services on the "classic" lines can be re-balanced to provide more commuter trains to Milton Keynes, Northampton, Kettering, Huntingdon, Peterborough whilst still maintaining fast services to the likes of Coventry, Stoke and Leicester but with more cheaper seats on them because some of the premium demand from Manchester etc travellers will have moved across. There will also be more paths available on the existing main lines through the day for long distance freight trains, giving more choice to the commercial sector and helping take some of the lorries off the M1 and M6 which also improves things for motorists (or provides more goods movement capacity, without slowing down motorways if we assume that shorter distance motorway traffic expands to fill the gap).

This is why the HS2 project has got cross-party support at top level and the political dissent is only coming from backbenchers in constituencies which get the line across them without a station.

Also this is not an either-or situation regarding investing in the rest of the network and electrifying our neglected main lines. Lots of electrification has already been announced about up to the capacity of the rail industry to deliver it within the period that the announcements cover:
Paddington services to Reading, Newbury, Oxford, Bristol, Cardiff, Swansea.
The whole of the South Wales valleys / south Glamorgan commuter network.
The Midland main line continuing from Bedford to Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield
The trans-Pennine route from Liverpool to York through Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds
Manchester-Bolton-Preston-Blackpool (enables electric trains from Manchester to Scotland and London-Blackpool over classic lines as well as the local trains)
Glasgow-Falkirk-Edinburgh/Stirling & Dunblane
The remaining gaps in the Southampton-Reading-Oxford-Coventry cross-country route (connecting with West Coast main line) plus Oxford-Bletchly-Bedford (to connect with Midland main line), both mainly justified on long-distance freight from Southampton but also benefitting regional and local passenger services along the way.

It's called long-term infrastructure planning. The sort of thing that UK has largely neglected or under-funded for many years, but has benefited countries like Germany for a long time. Now can the Government not only keep this going but apply the same thing to the nation's Power Stations, which are creaking.

 

[Cosmic Joker]

It is claimed on another Forum that the planned route goes straight through Crewe Alexandra' Ground.

This is not correct, the detailed plans on the Government HS2 site show that the line will go in a tunnel under the existing Crewe Station. Looks like no land outside the existing railway footprint will be needed within Crewe, certainly not on the southern approach.

 

[Notters]

eh? isnt this just like the TGV which just goes betwen major cities? (which everyone say is so great and why do we do the same)

Yes, but the TGV is public and has cheap train fares.

 

[glasfryn]

we could just concrete the whole country over and buy super speed bikes

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

This is not correct, the detailed plans on the Government HS2 site show that the line will go in a tunnel under the existing Crewe Station. Looks like no land outside the existing railway footprint will be needed within Crewe, certainly not on the southern approach.

They are planning a two and a half mile tunnel that will be going underneath the current station , it will only cost £200M.