[Travel] HS2 to be scrapped?

[Leekbrookgull]

Surely has become just a total embarrassment in delays and cost over runs? If any government wants to improve rail travel why not spend what money is available on the existing network or even possibly reopen some of the former network?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

It's a great idea that would've made a massive difference to a lot of people. Now it just looks like those who will benefit are those living south of Birmingham (because SURELY there's no way they will scrap phase 1, as well as the other bits?), which is pathetic, given it was meant to transform rail travel for the whole country. You can see why northerners don't like southerners...

 

[5ways]

I find it almost unfathomable that we cannot even build a railway. It is absolutely shocking.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

It's a great idea that would've made a massive difference to a lot of people. Now it just looks like those who will benefit are those living south of Birmingham (because SURELY there's no way they will scrap phase 1, as well as the other bits?), which is pathetic, given it was meant to transform rail travel for the whole country. You can see why northerners don't like southerners...

And that hate is due to ignorance.

 

[withdeanwombat]

What if they’d started building north to south? Any chance the southern bit would have been scrapped?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We are so bad at building in this country

 

[AK74]

 

[Bakero]

We are so bad at building in this country

It's just staggering isn't it. How on earth does it cost us 8x more than the Spanish to lay high-speed lines. We're even using the same company, a Spanish firm, to do the work.

The UK director of said firm says it's down to the planning. When they do a job in Spain, the government deals with all the stakeholders and gets the necessary permits so when the project starts, it's just about delivery. Apparently, in the UK we deal with these issues as we go which requires extra manpower and causes delays.

Even accounting for that, it's hard to understand the cost difference.

 

[A1X]

HS2 is vital national infrastructure and once built nobody would mention the cost again (exhibit A - the Channel Tunnel). It’s shameful they’ve already cut it back and indefensible they want to cut it back more.

 

[A1X]

Surely has become just a total embarrassment in delays and cost over runs? If any government wants to improve rail travel why not spend what money is available on the existing network or even possibly reopen some of the former network?

Take a look at what happened with the WCML upgrade of the mid-2000s. Billions spent and the increases in capacity were taken up within five years, putting them right back where they started.

 

[Peteinblack]

Complete waste of money, which should never have been started. The argument often advanced, that it would save 20 minutes or so on journeys between Birmingham and London, was never compelling, particularly as many/most business meetings are (post-Covid) conducted via Zoom or Teams.

The likely costs of continuing would be astronomical, given that 'stage 2' was not due to be completed until 2040; even since the project was given the green light over 13 years ago, the costs have more than doubled, from an envisaged £33 billion in 2010 to £71 billion this year, and rising all the time.

Surely better to spend the money upgrading and improving rail links and services in areas which are currently poorly served by public transport, or where ancient rolling stock is still being used? How will a super-fast rail service from London to Birmingham/Manchester benefit non-car drivers in places like Darlington, Hull or Mansfield?

On the other hand, if the Brum-Manchester link is scrapped (as the Brum-Leeds link was last year), it will be viewed as a major betrayal by many Red Wall voters in the north-west, who were promised HS2 as a major aspect of 'levelling-up', economic regeneration, new employment opportunities, and creation of a Northern Powerhouse.

Economically, scrapping HS2 make sense, but politically, it could be toxic in some regions.

 

[Questions]

It's a great idea that would've made a massive difference to a lot of people. Now it just looks like those who will benefit are those living south of Birmingham (because SURELY there's no way they will scrap phase 1, as well as the other bits?), which is pathetic, given it was meant to transform rail travel for the whole country. You can see why northerners don't like southerners...

I think we should be kept apart.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's just staggering isn't it. How on earth does it cost us 8x more than the Spanish to lay high-speed lines. We're even using the same company, a Spanish firm, to do the work.

The UK director of said firm says it's down to the planning. When they do a job in Spain, the government deals with all the stakeholders and gets the necessary permits so when the project starts, it's just about delivery. Apparently, in the UK we deal with these issues as we go which requires extra manpower and causes delays.

Even accounting for that, it's hard to understand the cost difference.

My favorite UK rail story is still the one regarding the Coventry arena. They build a dedicated stop to specifically service the arena…then close it when events are on due to it being too busy.

This takes some beating.

Obviously wouldn’t happen in Germany.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's just staggering isn't it. How on earth does it cost us 8x more than the Spanish to lay high-speed lines. We're even using the same company, a Spanish firm, to do the work.

The UK director of said firm says it's down to the planning. When they do a job in Spain, the government deals with all the stakeholders and gets the necessary permits so when the project starts, it's just about delivery. Apparently, in the UK we deal with these issues as we go which requires extra manpower and causes delays.

Even accounting for that, it's hard to understand the cost difference.

too much focus on arguments about whether to spend, headline costs, rather than enquire how the fudge it cost so much.
it's also odd how a project that was near universally* backed a decade ago now isn't, just because the costs are getting high. if we want infrastructure, rail capacity it's going to cost a lot.

*the nimbys, bananas and bat lovers of course never wanted it.

 

[GT49er]

too many focus on arguments about whether to spend, what its costing, rather than enquire how the fudge it cost so much.
its also odd how a project that was near universally* backed a decade ago now isnt, just because the costs are getting high. if we want infrastructure, rail capacity its going to cost a lot.

*the nimbys, bananas and bat lovers of course never wanted it.

Of course we want infrastructure - and we do know it costs a lot. But we still go ahead and proudly achieve it, regardless of spiralling costs - just look at Crossrail............oh, wait a minute, what location is that benefitting?

And that hate is due to ignorance.

The OP never mentioned hate, just dislike - but caused by ignorance like this? Yes, probably.

 

[RandyWanger]

It's another example of taking public money and funnelling it into private tory donor hands.

 

[GOM]

Complete waste of money, which should never have been started. The argument often advanced, that it would save 20 minutes or so on journeys between Birmingham and London, was never compelling, particularly as many/most business meetings are (post-Covid) conducted via Zoom or Teams.

....

I think most people know, but some obviously don't that the reduction in journey time is just a by-product of a better line and trains. The whole point of HS2 is to increase capacity moving passengers onto the new lines and thereby freeing up the old lines for more freight to run during the day which in turn will take juggernauts off the roads.

 

[portlock seagull]

If more people cared and held governments accountable, less likely this sort of thing would happen. We don’t so we get. A side from a few swamppies protesting around Wendover, very few people cared enough to protest on mass.

 

[Bakero]

It's another example of taking public money and funnelling it into private tory donor hands.

Occam's razor would suggest that is the case. It can't just be incompetence and surveys, can it?

The original budget was 55 million quid but that has now doubled. Spain have spent 55 million euros on their whole high-speed network. That's well over 3000km of track, which would be the equivalent of Lands End to John o' Groats and back with stops in London, Birmingham, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

 

[portlock seagull]

Of course we want infrastructure - and we do know it costs a lot. But we still go ahead and proudly achieve it, regardless of spiralling costs - just look at Crossrail............oh, wait a minute, what location is that benefitting?


The OP never mentioned hate, just dislike - but caused by ignorance like this? Yes, probably.

We need infrustructure, but not at any price. I just wonder how much of every pound spent actually goes towards building rather than lining someone’s pocket including interest payments. You get the feeling from Wembley, mill.dome, covid gear and so on that most money disappears into an unaccountable and untraceable black hole.