Howard Webb had a GOOD game...

[mcshane in the 79th]

Oh the official Dutch line is that the Karate kick was just a badly timed challenge and was probably the only yellow card they deserved and the sending off was a shockingly poor decision by the ref who was clearly conned by Iniesta's dive!

To be honest, I agree about the second yellow for Heitinga, thought Iniesta dived for it and got the man sent off.

Having said that, De Jong should have gone (for his Greer-esque tackle), no question, as should Van Bommell.

But then again, Iniesta could have gone, lashing out (understandable in the circumstances but still a yellow), diving, bad tackle, and taking his shirt off. Puyol could also have gone for his pull back when Robben was through. Add to that the corner that should have been it wasn't a perfect performance, but pretty admirable in the circumstances.

The Dutch complaining after the match is pathetic and they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[zeemeeuw]

Have you pointed out to them that there are many who think he was nothing like strict enough with the Dutch, and that they should have been down to nine men before half-time?

Or are they going to spend the rest of eternity blaming everyone BUT themselves?

Yes and yes.

 

[Freddie Goodwin.]

I've not read the whole thread so may not be adding anything new.

This was the most important match in the World and played to a Worldwide audience. We've all seen games ruined by refs who have been too quick with the cards or have ruined games with sending offs.

He tried his best to keep it 11 aside and to allow these players to compete in a WC final but these players took the p big time.

I wanted holland to win but they were disgraceful with their attitude and have only themselves to blame. It's a shame that cup finals are such tense affairs instead of the showpeice that they should be. Contrast that to the 3rd/4th place game where both teams gave their all to show commitment and skill without the nastiness.

 

[simmo]

Sides that lose big games always use the ref as an excuse. Whether Puyol should have been sent off is questionable. Whether De Jong should have got a red rather than a yellow for his karate kick is virtually beyond doubt (this seems to have slipped Dutch minds!)

Holland got what they deserved for the way that they played. Webb reffed as well as he could have in the circumstances.

 

[simmo]

To be honest, I agree about the second yellow for Heitinga, thought Iniesta dived for it and got the man sent off.

Having said that, De Jong should have gone (for his Greer-esque tackle), no question, as should Van Bommell.

But then again, Iniesta could have gone, lashing out (understandable in the circumstances but still a yellow), diving, bad tackle, and taking his shirt off. Puyol could also have gone for his pull back when Robben was through. Add to that the corner that should have been it wasn't a perfect performance, but pretty admirable in the circumstances.

The Dutch complaining after the match is pathetic and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Robben could also have had a second yellow when he put the ball in the net (i.e wasting time) after being flagged for offside when I think Holland were down to 10 and before the winner.

 

[Danny-Boy]

How do yet the colour Orange?

Mix a lot of yellow with a bit of red...

 

[East Staffs Gull]

Is there a case for a punishment between a yellow card and a sending-off, say 10 minutes in a sin-bin?

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

The fact is still though, that if he'd have given that corner to Holland at the end when the free kick deflected off the wall, then it may well have been a different story or at least gone to pens. Bad ending for him.

nonsense. if you're going to go to that level of determinism, you could easily argue that robert dudley, 1st earl of leicester was to blame.

 

[Gwylan]

nonsense. if you're going to go to that level of determinism, you could easily argue that robert dudley, 1st earl of leicester was to blame.

Nah, if that had been the case, someone would have fallen down the steps after collecting their medal.

 

[sydney]

Is there a case for a punishment between a yellow card and a sending-off, say 10 minutes in a sin-bin?

or in robbens case having your bollocks set on fire and put out with a squash raquet.......

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

Robben could also have had a second yellow when he put the ball in the net (i.e wasting time) after being flagged for offside when I think Holland were down to 10 and before the winner.

True. Webb did book Xavi for doing the same thing not too long afterwards.

 

[The Large One]

Spanish papers accuse Webb of being biased towards the Dutch, Dutch players accuse Webb of being biased towards the Spanish. Fellow referees defend him.


World Cup 2010: Referees leap to Howard Webb's defence

Former Premier League referees have defended Howard Webb after criticism of his display during Spain's 1-0 World Cup final win over the Netherlands. Webb booked 13 players and sent off Dutchman Johnny Heitinga in a fractious and incident-packed game on Sunday.

"He had one of the toughest games he's ever had but I don't think his career is in tatters, like some are saying," said former referee Dermot Gallagher. "I think any referee would have had a monumental task in that match."

The performance of 38-year-old Webb has been condemned by a number of the Netherlands players and their coach Bert van Marwijk, who felt the nine yellow cards - including the second given to Heitinga - represented harsher treatment against them than their opponents from the official.

However, former Premier League and World Cup referee Graham Poll defended the Yorkshireman, who was booed by the Dutch fans when he collected his medal at the end of the game. Poll stated on BBC Radio Four's Today Programme: "I thought he did very well in very testing circumstances. He chose to do it his way, which I think made it a better game. Had he chosen to step in and apply the laws strictly, which hasn't been done the whole World Cup to be fair to Howard, we could have ended up with probably eight Dutch players on the pitch. As it's a World Cup final I'd give his performance a nine [out of 10]."

Webb has also received backing from Fifa president Sepp Blatter, who agreed that the official had "a very hard task" in controlling Sunday's final. "The final was not exactly what I expected in terms of fair play. It's not up to me judge the performances of the officials, I can only say it was not easy, really not easy and they were really not helped in this task."

The Dutch adopted an aggressive approach to the game in an attempt to break-up Spain's passing game and were fortunate not to be reduced to 10 men in the first half when midfielder Nigel de Jong landed a boot in the chest of Spanish counterpart Xabi Alonso. This, and a number of other heavy tackles during the match, led to angry protests from the Spain players, a mood that was relfected in the Spanish media on Monday morning.

Newspaper El Mundo Deportivo said: "Holland were able to count on an unexpected ally: referee Howard Webb, who allowed the Dutch to get away with brutal fouls time and time again."

This is a viewpoint shared by Marca, who launched a scathing attack on the official, saying: ""Webb is a narcissist who needs a quota of protagonism which doesn't correspond to him, a bad referee yesterday and almost always. He even handed out the cards equally until the situation was beyond repair. He was on the verge of destroying the final."

Gallagher though feels that Webb was unsighted for De Jong's challenge and that any leniency he showed in the first half was as a result of wanting to preserve the game as a contest.

"I looked at that [De Jong's challenge] and immediately thought it was a red card but when you look at it again, Howard's covered by Alonso's body so I don't think he realised how high it was," said Gallagher. "But there were all kinds of tackles, you could pick any: Van Bommel was all over the place, Sneijder was kicking people. I've never seen a Dutch side play like that. When you look back, it's easy to say 'he should have done this' but whatever he did, he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't, because people talk about nine Dutchmen on the field at half-time, and everyone would then have condemned the referee and said he'd ruined the final.

"He's gone into what's billed as the most prestigious game in his career and always will be, and he's come out knowing it was probably the toughest game of his career and always will be."

The Netherlands main point of contention with Webb was what they perceived as an error on the part of the official in the build-up to Spain's winning goal. With the teams facing a penalty shoot-out as the game was drawing to a close, Spain midfielder Andres Iniesta smashed in a half-volley - which ultimately won the game - leaving the Dutch incensed after Webb had failed to award their side a corner moments earlier when a Wesley Sneijder free-kick took a deflection off Cesc Fabregas.

There were also protests that substitute Dutch winger Elijero Elia had been fouled in the move that led to the goal-kick. "I didn't think it was a foul," said Gallagher. "Players aren't obliged to step aside and let people through. Without doubt, the Dutch guy tried to go through a gap which was much too small for him. I thought it was a fair shout. If that was in the penalty area, the Dutch wouldn't have been happy if that had been given against them. It's sod's law they've gone up the other end and scored from it."

Webb was awarded control of the World Cup final - the first Englishman since Jack Taylor in 1974 to be bestowed the honour - following his impressive handling of his three previous games, in which he showed 17 yellow cards. The Yorkshireman was widely praised for his player-management skills during a tense match in Group F earlier in the competition, when Slovakia eliminated 2006 World Cup winners Italy courtesy of a 3-2 victory.

The World Cup has contained a number of high profile refereeing errors, which have prompted Fifa to acquiesce to calls to review the current system for officials. England midfielder Frank Lampard had a goal ruled out in the 4-1 defeat by Germany when the ball had clearly crossed the line and Carlos Tevez's opening goal in Argentina's 3-1 win over Mexico was allowed to stand despite the striker being offside.

Gallagher feels that the tournament in South Africa has highlighted the inconsistency provided by less experienced referees.

"It's been a very mixed bag to be honest," added Gallagher. "I think the next World Cup it'll be interesting to see if rather than go politically and say we're going to have so many referees from each confederation, whether they'll take the stance that even if it means three from the Premier League, three from Brazil, so be it because you've got the best competition, the best players, really you need the best referees. The smaller nations… They were over-exposed. Referees from Mali, the Seychelles. They're not doing top-level football. There's enough tournaments around the world at under-21 level etc to learn the trade. At this level, you've got to have the referees that are professional."

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Nah, if that had been the case, someone would have fallen down the steps after collecting their medal.

quite, sir.

soft or hard?

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

That game last night did my head in. The dutch for their negative and cynical approach to the final and the Spanish for constantly going to ground, surrounding the ref and brandishing imaginary cards.

I think Webb tried his very best to let the game flow but I also think he made quite a few mistakes. I think he sent the wrong player off for a start. De Jong should definitely have gone. Van Bommel was also lucky to stay on. Heitinga on the other hand, I felt, was unlucky to see red. Iniesta went to ground far, far to easily and bought the free kick and subsequently the red card. I don't think we can necessarily blame Webb though. He was only applying the letter of the law(quite leniently at that , too). Unfortunately, thanks to that soul less, money guzzling corrupt arseface and his cronies in charge of the game, the law of football is one giant ass. It seems to me that the rules of the game actually encourage cheating in the form of diving and play acting. It's so easy to get booked that there's no benefit to staying on your feet when the slightest of contact is justification for a dive and enough to earn your opponent a yellow card.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I was hoping that UEFA and FIFA would bring in a new rule for banning divers in time for this year, its clear they will not now.

 

[simmo]

Spanish papers accuse Webb of being biased towards the Dutch, Dutch players accuse Webb of being biased towards the Spanish. Fellow referees defend him.


World Cup 2010: Referees leap to Howard Webb's defence

Former Premier League referees have defended Howard Webb after criticism of his display during Spain's 1-0 World Cup final win over the Netherlands. Webb booked 13 players and sent off Dutchman Johnny Heitinga in a fractious and incident-packed game on Sunday.

"He had one of the toughest games he's ever had but I don't think his career is in tatters, like some are saying," said former referee Dermot Gallagher. "I think any referee would have had a monumental task in that match."

The performance of 38-year-old Webb has been condemned by a number of the Netherlands players and their coach Bert van Marwijk, who felt the nine yellow cards - including the second given to Heitinga - represented harsher treatment against them than their opponents from the official.

However, former Premier League and World Cup referee Graham Poll defended the Yorkshireman, who was booed by the Dutch fans when he collected his medal at the end of the game. Poll stated on BBC Radio Four's Today Programme: "I thought he did very well in very testing circumstances. He chose to do it his way, which I think made it a better game. Had he chosen to step in and apply the laws strictly, which hasn't been done the whole World Cup to be fair to Howard, we could have ended up with probably eight Dutch players on the pitch. As it's a World Cup final I'd give his performance a nine [out of 10]."

Webb has also received backing from Fifa president Sepp Blatter, who agreed that the official had "a very hard task" in controlling Sunday's final. "The final was not exactly what I expected in terms of fair play. It's not up to me judge the performances of the officials, I can only say it was not easy, really not easy and they were really not helped in this task."

The Dutch adopted an aggressive approach to the game in an attempt to break-up Spain's passing game and were fortunate not to be reduced to 10 men in the first half when midfielder Nigel de Jong landed a boot in the chest of Spanish counterpart Xabi Alonso. This, and a number of other heavy tackles during the match, led to angry protests from the Spain players, a mood that was relfected in the Spanish media on Monday morning.

Newspaper El Mundo Deportivo said: "Holland were able to count on an unexpected ally: referee Howard Webb, who allowed the Dutch to get away with brutal fouls time and time again."

This is a viewpoint shared by Marca, who launched a scathing attack on the official, saying: ""Webb is a narcissist who needs a quota of protagonism which doesn't correspond to him, a bad referee yesterday and almost always. He even handed out the cards equally until the situation was beyond repair. He was on the verge of destroying the final."

Gallagher though feels that Webb was unsighted for De Jong's challenge and that any leniency he showed in the first half was as a result of wanting to preserve the game as a contest.

"I looked at that [De Jong's challenge] and immediately thought it was a red card but when you look at it again, Howard's covered by Alonso's body so I don't think he realised how high it was," said Gallagher. "But there were all kinds of tackles, you could pick any: Van Bommel was all over the place, Sneijder was kicking people. I've never seen a Dutch side play like that. When you look back, it's easy to say 'he should have done this' but whatever he did, he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't, because people talk about nine Dutchmen on the field at half-time, and everyone would then have condemned the referee and said he'd ruined the final.

"He's gone into what's billed as the most prestigious game in his career and always will be, and he's come out knowing it was probably the toughest game of his career and always will be."

The Netherlands main point of contention with Webb was what they perceived as an error on the part of the official in the build-up to Spain's winning goal. With the teams facing a penalty shoot-out as the game was drawing to a close, Spain midfielder Andres Iniesta smashed in a half-volley - which ultimately won the game - leaving the Dutch incensed after Webb had failed to award their side a corner moments earlier when a Wesley Sneijder free-kick took a deflection off Cesc Fabregas.

There were also protests that substitute Dutch winger Elijero Elia had been fouled in the move that led to the goal-kick. "I didn't think it was a foul," said Gallagher. "Players aren't obliged to step aside and let people through. Without doubt, the Dutch guy tried to go through a gap which was much too small for him. I thought it was a fair shout. If that was in the penalty area, the Dutch wouldn't have been happy if that had been given against them. It's sod's law they've gone up the other end and scored from it."

Webb was awarded control of the World Cup final - the first Englishman since Jack Taylor in 1974 to be bestowed the honour - following his impressive handling of his three previous games, in which he showed 17 yellow cards. The Yorkshireman was widely praised for his player-management skills during a tense match in Group F earlier in the competition, when Slovakia eliminated 2006 World Cup winners Italy courtesy of a 3-2 victory.

The World Cup has contained a number of high profile refereeing errors, which have prompted Fifa to acquiesce to calls to review the current system for officials. England midfielder Frank Lampard had a goal ruled out in the 4-1 defeat by Germany when the ball had clearly crossed the line and Carlos Tevez's opening goal in Argentina's 3-1 win over Mexico was allowed to stand despite the striker being offside.

Gallagher feels that the tournament in South Africa has highlighted the inconsistency provided by less experienced referees.

"It's been a very mixed bag to be honest," added Gallagher. "I think the next World Cup it'll be interesting to see if rather than go politically and say we're going to have so many referees from each confederation, whether they'll take the stance that even if it means three from the Premier League, three from Brazil, so be it because you've got the best competition, the best players, really you need the best referees. The smaller nations… They were over-exposed. Referees from Mali, the Seychelles. They're not doing top-level football. There's enough tournaments around the world at under-21 level etc to learn the trade. At this level, you've got to have the referees that are professional."

I think if the Spanish are saying he favoured Holland and the Dutch saying he favoured Spain (which people always do when they watch a game with bias as the Dutch and the Spaniards would have done) and most of us tend to think he reffed ok, all in all he probably did fine, in what I think we nearly all agree was a very tough game to ref.

 

[Yoda]

the Spanish for constantly going to ground, surrounding the ref and brandishing imaginary cards.

I think they've become the World leaders at that over the last few years.

 

[Gully]

With all the 'total football' archive footage shown before the game, and then the brutal match which followed, there must be a lot of people in Holland scratching their heads.

Agree totally HT...perhaps when Van Marwijk looks at the tape from the match he will see what a dirty bunch of bastards his team really were...total football my arse!

Say what you like about the Spanish, at least they kept trying to play their passing game, I am very glad that they did and emerged as deserved winners on the night. If the Dutch had won the game it would have been a complete travesty and a dreadful result for football...coaches already have a hard enough job persuading kids not to behave like Drogba, imagine how much harder it would become with the likes of De Jong and Van Bommell setting the example to be followed...utterly, utterly dreadful.

Oh and as for Mr Webb, I thought he did well to keep the lid on the dustbin, as others have suggested it could have turned absolutely farcical if one of the "look at me, card happy types" had been reffing...I think FIFA got it absolutely right on this occasion, they may have suspected how the game could turn out, if not...they just got lucky!

 

[The Merry Prankster]

About 4 mins from the end of extra time I said to Mrs. MP - Howard Webb has had a good game just to keep this from descending into a farce of sending offs but he is going to look a right weak wanker if Holland win. We think he had a good game because the best team, who played football won but if Holland had sneaked it then it would have been a disastrous game for Webb.

 

[Questions]

Seeing as they're from Holland isn't that the way they always set out?

Dont be a smart arse just because you lost out on your bet.