[Misc] How much sucking up has to be done in a corporate company to get promoted?

[Raleigh Chopper]

If you want to get on in the corporate world make sure that you mention that you play golf.
If you don't then lie and take some lessons.
Then let the person you report to win and tell him/her how good they are at golf and how you wished that you had a top set of clubs like you.
You will then be able to be crap at your job but carry on working there.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

As others have said, it sounds like you didn't have a fair chance from the start.. But, on the plus side, you have learned how group interviews feel and have had a bit of interview experience.
I have also had interviews where the reason given for me not getting the role makes no sense. Put it down to experience and move on. From your post, you seem a confident person, I am sure you will do well in future interviews.

Thanks for you post, i am a confident person in what i do, but it's very frustrating that one person can block you from a job you want to do and you know you can improve on.

If you want to get on in the corporate world make sure that you mention that you play golf.
If you don't then lie and take some lessons.
Then let the person you report to win and tell him/her how good they are at golf and how you wished that you had a top set of clubs like you.
You will then be able to be crap at your job but carry on working there.

I do play Golf and the boss knows that, but i wouldn't want to be crap at my job!!

He was probably worried i would sink that 35ft putt on the last green to win!

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

I've sat on both sides of these processes. The process is of course meant to lessen the influence of subjectivity, but I have yet to see a process where subjectivity isn't involved in the process. "Yes, I know she demonstrated that, but..." I think it is very hard to get away from the personal prejudices/likes/dislikes that feed our "gut-feeling" or "instinct" when recruitment decisions are made. Hence why the feedback that people receive on the objective elements often doesn't feel right or reflect what happened. Subjectivity is an element that is important however.. if the recruiting manager doesn't like someone or is concerned about managing them, it is very difficult to get past that in an objective, competency-based approach. It is very easy to jump to "brown-nosing" or "playing the game" and its uncomfortable to accept that we all have a "profile" (yeucchhh!) whether we like it or not.. the way we go about our work, day to day, the way we react to change, colleagues, our behaviors during meetings etc are all part of that. We often call it sucking-up when our profile doesn't fit, but recognizing that can be helpful - it was to me - realizing that my profile with one particular senior director just wasn't right, regardless of the positive feedback that I (and he) got from my managers, was not going to change his point of view and I was not gong to get past that. Rightly or wrongly, it gave me a choice to make - stay and either change my profile (suck-up to that one director if you like) , stay and hope that he left, or leave to achieve what I felt I was capable of. I left and haven't looked back.

 

[Rambo]

I've sat on both sides of these processes. The process is of course meant to lessen the influence of subjectivity, but I have yet to see a process where subjectivity isn't involved in the process. "Yes, I know she demonstrated that, but..." I think it is very hard to get away from the personal prejudices/likes/dislikes that feed our "gut-feeling" or "instinct" when recruitment decisions are made. Hence why the feedback that people receive on the objective elements often doesn't feel right or reflect what happened. Subjectivity is an element that is important however.. if the recruiting manager doesn't like someone or is concerned about managing them, it is very difficult to get past that in an objective, competency-based approach. It is very easy to jump to "brown-nosing" or "playing the game" and its uncomfortable to accept that we all have a "profile" (yeucchhh!) whether we like it or not.. the way we go about our work, day to day, the way we react to change, colleagues, our behaviors during meetings etc are all part of that. We often call it sucking-up when our profile doesn't fit, but recognizing that can be helpful - it was to me - realizing that my profile with one particular senior director just wasn't right, regardless of the positive feedback that I (and he) got from my managers, was not going to change his point of view and I was not gong to get past that. Rightly or wrongly, it gave me a choice to make - stay and either change my profile (suck-up to that one director if you like) , stay and hope that he left, or leave to achieve what I felt I was capable of. I left and haven't looked back.

I also have experience on both sides and agree with this. Perception is the reality whether you like it or not, even if they are completly deluded (in your opinion) it doesnt matter, in built beliefs are very hard to change 'Its easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled', so the 'process' will be followed but ultimately the hiring manager has the overriding vote.

 

[kjgood]

Same thing happens here.

Likewise, the candidate has already been chosen. The interviews are to bat off any future litigation.

 

[kjgood]

I've sat on both sides of these processes. The process is of course meant to lessen the influence of subjectivity, but I have yet to see a process where subjectivity isn't involved in the process. "Yes, I know she demonstrated that, but..." I think it is very hard to get away from the personal prejudices/likes/dislikes that feed our "gut-feeling" or "instinct" when recruitment decisions are made. Hence why the feedback that people receive on the objective elements often doesn't feel right or reflect what happened. Subjectivity is an element that is important however.. if the recruiting manager doesn't like someone or is concerned about managing them, it is very difficult to get past that in an objective, competency-based approach. It is very easy to jump to "brown-nosing" or "playing the game" and its uncomfortable to accept that we all have a "profile" (yeucchhh!) whether we like it or not.. the way we go about our work, day to day, the way we react to change, colleagues, our behaviors during meetings etc are all part of that. We often call it sucking-up when our profile doesn't fit, but recognizing that can be helpful - it was to me - realizing that my profile with one particular senior director just wasn't right, regardless of the positive feedback that I (and he) got from my managers, was not going to change his point of view and I was not gong to get past that. Rightly or wrongly, it gave me a choice to make - stay and either change my profile (suck-up to that one director if you like) , stay and hope that he left, or leave to achieve what I felt I was capable of. I left and haven't looked back.

Unfortunately that one Direcector will have assessed you and written you off a long time ago. Once an negative opinion has been formed you stand little chance of changing it.

 

[looney]

I may be old fashioned, if I'm hiring I want the best person for the job, group interviews IMO your seeing an act. Someone who's a little shy could have all the skills required with a brilliant mind yet some knob in a suit wants to hire a loud mouth. Don't get this technique at all.

Also being old fashioned I wouldn't bother just going through the motions to save feelings. Unless its public sector where they are legally bound to advertise vacancies etc. If the manager is avoiding eye contact is it shame at putting on a facade? A conspiratorial situation? Or just embarrassed at the suits David Brent antics?

There are a lot of pointers to social skills that haven't been mentioned, respecting personal space, attitudes to errors and success. There are jobs were group interviews are valid, were team work and mentoring are important.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If you want to get on in the corporate world make sure that you mention that you play golf.
If you don't then lie and take some lessons.
Then let the person you report to win and tell him/her how good they are at golf and how you wished that you had a top set of clubs like you.
You will then be able to be crap at your job but carry on working there.

Whilst probably posted with your tongue firmly in your cheek, that's a scarely accurate summary of some companies I've worked for. I've seen it first hand where the CEO was a golf nut. As soon as he knew someone liked golf they would get invited to customer golf days and other meetings on the golf course. The golfers almost became untouchable.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Sounds like the job was already sorted. However it may have been worth challenging the boss on the Q & A along the lines of “I sense from your demeanour/ body language that there is something I still havent convinced you about”. That would have been a good way of flushing him out as it is clear, if it wasnt a stitch up, that he hadnt fully bought into you.

Good luck for the future

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Do they still do that psychometric testing bollocks - last company I worked for in the UK used it, but you could still rig the results if you knew how.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

If it is anything like the corporate I work in it would have been decided long before the interview stage and this was all a HR exercise

Thread closed. This is your answer.

 

[spongy]

So glad I don't work in that kind of environment any more. I went through college studying business studies. Then did level 2 and 3 nvqs in business. Got a job at International Factors and hated it.

The cliqueness (is that a word?) was unbelieveable. I worked hard, never late and didn't have a sick day but I never really fitted in. The slagging off and bitching about people behind their backs pissed me off and regularly challenged people about why they're being such ***** to each other probably didn't help my cause.

I jacked it in and got a job at a factory running cnc machines. A much more open and honest atmosphere. If someone is being a dick they get told. If someone isnt pulling their weight they get told.

Occasional arguments but it's almost self policing. Everyone works together and tries not to stitch others up. My perfect working environment. Even though the pay isn't quite up there with good jobs in offices. But not far off.

Luckily in this industry you get hired on your knowledge and how competent you are. None of this group interview crap. I'm quite an open and honest person who likes taking the piss and having a laugh whilst working hard. It is possible to do. Contrary to some of the managers i worked under in offices.

If me and my boss aren't absolutely ripping the piss out of each other at work then something is wrong!

Group interviews and psycho tests make me come out in a cold sweat just thinking about it! Horrible ways to hire people. As someone said earlier you can have the perfect candidate there but be cause they're shy they get overlooked. Such a shame.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I should state at this point that a new company has just bought them and is re- structuring with big changes and cutting 14 field roles to just 6 and unfortunately there was no longer a role in my area, so it was this role or the dole.

Gutted.


So what went wrong

Sadly mate, there's nothing you could have done. The game was rigged from the start.

If it's any consolation, your boss at the interview will also lose his job in the next tranche of New Owner redundancies. As will half the HR team. That's how it works.

Wishing you the very best for the future. Hope you find something soon.

Cheers

 

[Wardy's twin]

I worked for a large Telco, I had been doing the job for 6 months on a temporary basis when job was advertised to be filled full-time . It was a technical post and I was only one who could do the job at that time and only applicant. I failed the interview (apparently) . Within a couple of weeks an office nearby was closed and a guy with similar skills was given the job as he was already at the grade. At no time had I been told that I was not meeting the required standard.

I moved on to another work area in the same wider team , my team leader who was temporary decided to move on and I was offered the job on a temporary basis by the same senior manager who had previously interviewed me. After I finished laughing I said permanent on not at all. The tide had turned as yet again I was only one who had the skills but this time I had learnt my lesson. I got the promotion.

So the moral of my story is if you think you are good enough don't let the b*stards grind you down.

P.S. in the many years that followed there were constant reorganisations and people reductions and I was asked on several occasions to apply for my own post. I never bothered and funnily enough kept the post.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Sadly mate, there's nothing you could have done. The game was rigged from the start.

If it's any consolation, your boss at the interview will also lose his job in the next tranche of New Owner redundancies. As will half the HR team. That's how it works.

Wishing you the very best for the future. Hope you find something soon.

Cheers

Thanks for that mate.

The boss had been made up to a national role and it was his former position i was going for, the strange thing is i really could not understand why they need that position to manage just two team leaders.

Do you think he could have been manoeuvred him so they can release him later without the redundancy costs as i think he had been there over 10 years

The company bought who bought them out have offices opp North it wouldn't surprise me if they moved the whole operation within a year or so, even know they did promise to rent the original HQ for a five year contract. (they are cash rich).

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I worked for a large Telco, I had been doing the job for 6 months on a temporary basis when job was advertised to be filled full-time . It was a technical post and I was only one who could do the job at that time and only applicant. I failed the interview (apparently) . Within a couple of weeks an office nearby was closed and a guy with similar skills was given the job as he was already at the grade. At no time had I been told that I was not meeting the required standard.

I moved on to another work area in the same wider team , my team leader who was temporary decided to move on and I was offered the job on a temporary basis by the same senior manager who had previously interviewed me. After I finished laughing I said permanent on not at all. The tide had turned as yet again I was only one who had the skills but this time I had learnt my lesson. I got the promotion.

So the moral of my story is if you think you are good enough don't let the b*stards grind you down.

P.S. in the many years that followed there were constant reorganisations and people reductions and I was asked on several occasions to apply for my own post. I never bothered and funnily enough kept the post.

Well done you and i certainly won't let them grind me down, just a temporary winding, but i still have plenty of combinations to throw if need be in the future!

 

[Doonhamer7]

In any large organisation there is so much in the saying “it’s who you know and not what you know”,so if you dont network you are only holding yourself back. Those who brown nose are noticed by management for being exactly that - it doesn’t make you look good. As for pre-decisions being made - from my experience (both sides) in most cases they are but you have to go through a process when making people redundant ( protect the company from being taken to court) and any good manager will load the assesssment to keep their best people. I have to say making people redundant is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to do at work, I know it’s much worse for those being made redundant, but it really affects you as a person

 

[LlcoolJ]

Based on your comments about the new boss and his body language, perhaps he'd made up his mind conciously or subconciously early on or even before the interview? In other words, not following the process and HR science. This is very common.

Their loss more than yours in the end.

Well done for staying (outwardly) positive during the process and after the bad news.

Hopefully you find something better in the near future.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Time to look outside the company for something else maybe?

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Whilst probably posted with your tongue firmly in your cheek, that's a scarely accurate summary of some companies I've worked for. I've seen it first hand where the CEO was a golf nut. As soon as he knew someone liked golf they would get invited to customer golf days and other meetings on the golf course. The golfers almost became untouchable.

Not tongue in cheek, Golf kept me in a managerial role for many years, as you say, corporate golf days, deals on the course etc.
Just make sure the boss wins, seriously.
Mrs Chopper had worked for major blue chip mostly American companies for most of her working life and it is rife and most were not good at their job.
Luckily she is very good at what she does and produces results if she played golf and brown nosed she would probably be CEO.