[Misc] How much sucking up has to be done in a corporate company to get promoted?

[Johnnyboy]

Really sorry to read this. Best of luck in whatever comes next. You sound a conscientious guy.

Given the option youve outlined is that this job or out, you have nothing to lose in asking for a formal feedback session with thw interviewers. If hr are involved and he makes the kind of comment he has to you already then politely ask for examples etc.

Doesnt do any harm for the company and hr team to think youre collating evidence of some form of procedural failing. They may lool favourably on you for another role or in the terms of your settlement

Good advice. Especially if you can get them to mention age within the process!

 

[Weststander]

I don't think there's anything wrong with you personally, probably the employer interviewing.
My wife underwent a similar tale a while ago with Waitrose.
She went through the group interview, thought all was okay, then found out she didn't make it through.
During the group interview, she said this guy went overboard on the sucking up, all out love for Waitrose & John Lewis.

Guess who got the job!

A wild guess ... was it the groveller with no pride?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I went through redundency a couple of years ago, they moved my role to another part of the country and gave the job to the person based there over me, foolishly for them they didnt put us through an interview process and gave him a role, I kicked up a fuss, made them put us through an interview process, for well knowing I wouldnt get the role, in the mean time I had already contacted the a Employment law specialist who contacted the company in question with a settlement amount, as I said I didnt get the role, but I did get three lovely months of gardening leave and a decent pay off.

Anyway head up, you will soon realise change was probably for the best if you have been in the same place for a while. I dont know what you do, but I have plenty of roles going at my new place.

Unfortunately i have been Sub contracting so not sure i will have a leg to stand on even though we had a contract they did give us options, its just the other options were unrealistic, thanks anyway.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

what on earth is a "group interview" ?

Bear in mind I last changed roles in 2001 and because the boss already knew me he told me not to bother to turn up for the interview.
The one before that was a chat in the cafe.
The only other one was in the 80's.

2001 was the year i last had an interview also, so it was new to me.

A group interview is when they give you some instructions on a piece of paper to read which has what you have to do, then you have a choice of 3 different circumstances that are made up (maybe, maybe not!) which you have to pick randomly then each in turn you have to sell the point to the others there were 3 of us in my group and 3 in a group the day before.

They are looking for leadership qualities in this role, like teamwork and getting the team on your side, i thought i had aced it. In the corners of the room two HR and the boss overlook our conversation a la Karen and Claude apprentice style.


After the event i now know it was Bolloxs just hoping they could find a glimpse of something to put you down, because they already have the candidate.
Just wasted hours and hours of my pre-preparation time for nothing basically.

You live and learn.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Honky Tonx]

Depends on what you are willing to suck

 

[maffew]

Today has been somewhat of a Sh+t day @ the office as they say.

Went for an interview yesterday, my first for 15 years and it was a group interview........no pressure there then! After that the one on one interview.

Fortunately pressure doesn't faze me in these situation and just excites me.

Round 1

The Group interview

From the off I felt poor body language from the recently promoted boss, but the HR girls were giving all the right signals, there were 3 of us with 3 shadowing us, I felt I had excelled in all that was asked of me, i didn't think i was over zealous in the tasks but took control at the same time, which was for a team leader role, something i have had 20 years experience in and to my knowledge i was out in and in pole position for experience.

Round 2

The face to face interview.

I was last to be interviewed an hour an a half wait, but didn't bother me as brushed up on some of the potential answers.

It was a quick fire style 15 ish question with me asking questions at the end.

Personally i thought i answered the questions all but perfect for the position with eye contact good body language and plenty of enthusiasm to the boss and the HR girl.

The boss didn't give me much eye contact and was slumping in his chair, whilst the HR girl was nodding agreeing with every answer i gave.

I came out feeling i had done all that was asked and could not have done much better, just a bit concerned of the bosses poor body language.

Today

Boss called early this morning to say I didn't get the position, I asked for feedback and he said I felt that your were not going to be able to motivate the team as i didn't feel the enthusiasm, eh FFS enthusiasm was coming out of my lug holes you **** and I didn't take lead in the group interview, eh yes i did, I persuaded the other two candidates to change their mind on the role plays we were given.


I should state at this point that a new company has just bought them and is re- structuring with big changes and cutting 14 field roles to just 6 and unfortunately there was no longer a role in my area, so it was this role or the dole.


I always had my eye on this position anyhow, so it didn't worry me.


Gutted.


So what went wrong

Forgive me and hope I am wrong

Sounds to me like they already had someone lined up, probably internal; and were ticking the boxes, going through the motions

Good luck, I hope they have not wasted your time mate

 

[tiberious]

Thanks for your kind comments, i would say i am pretty much the perfect employee!! I have always had to have massive job satisfaction and if i didn't i would move on i would only give 100% and achieved highly with all my past jobs, however i am approaching my mid fifties and there are some ageist Feckers out there!

There are a lot of over fifties that have moved mountains in this world but recruitment/Companies seem stuck on not employing these diamonds.

I may well follow up on this, however i was sub contracting for this firm not sure whether this is still possible

I would ask for written feedback with examples of where you scored low. I have myself conducted interviews and we have always had set questions with positive and negative indicators. We would score the person individually out of 5 then discuss with the other interviewer our score and agree the final score. At the end of the day it is their loss and not yours, You sound the ideal employee but sometimes if you dont tell people how good you are they take you for granted. Where my wife works is a good example , she works her socks off but is not recognised, the woman she works with is an ASS licker and they think she is great

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Forgive me and hope I am wrong

Sounds to me like they already had someone lined up, probably internal; and were ticking the boxes, going through the motions

Good luck, I hope they have not wasted your time mate

I think you spot on mate, yes they did waste a lot of my time two years in total, but i was being patient for the opportunity.

I am sure there are some good old fashion styled companies which have more vision to who wants a good honest, hard working, ambitious guy.

I would ask for written feedback with examples of where you scored low. I have myself conducted interviews and we have always had set questions with positive and negative indicators. We would score the person individually out of 5 then discuss with the other interviewer our score and agree the final score. At the end of the day it is their loss and not yours, You sound the ideal employee but sometimes if you dont tell people how good you are they take you for granted. Where my wife works is a good example , she works her socks off but is not recognised, the woman she works with is an ASS licker and they think she is great

Thanks for your advice, am i still able to do this even though i was sub contracting for them?

 

[happypig]

2001 was the year i last had an interview also, so it was new to me.

A group interview is when they give you some instructions on a piece of paper to read which has what you have to do, then you have a choice of 3 different circumstances that are made up (maybe, maybe not!) which you have to pick randomly then each in turn you have to sell the point to the others there were 3 of us in my group and 3 in a group the day before.

They are looking for leadership qualities in this role, like teamwork and getting the team on your side, i thought i had aced it. In the corners of the room two HR and the boss overlook our conversation a la Karen and Claude apprentice style.


After the event i now know it was Bolloxs just hoping they could find a glimpse of something to put you down, because they already have the candidate.
Just wasted hours and hours of my pre-preparation time for nothing basically.

You live and learn.

Hope that makes sense.

Oh I see, thank you.
Thank heavens my next elective work move will be retirement.

 

[FatSuperman]

Each situation is different no doubt, but a couple of examples would be:
management don't realise which members of staff are doing the work
management promote people who will put making the manager look good ahead of getting the work done

I read an interesting piece on The Register many years ago, it talked about the type of person that spends most of their effort looking like they are being productive. It's actually far more efficient to appear to be great than actually be great. I expect the majority of those working I large companies will have seen this time and time again.

Anyway [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION] - perhaps you're better off. Remember, even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat.

 

[Weststander]

[MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION]. In your professional field, or something else you excel at, would you ever be able to set up in business and go it alone?

After the years of wearing work politics, attempted manipulation and illogical favouritism, I managed to escape a few years back to go it alone. The best thing I ever did work-wise, since then in control of my own destiny, with no tw*t trying to micro manage me.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I read an interesting piece on The Register many years ago, it talked about the type of person that spends most of their effort looking like they are being productive. It's actually far more efficient to appear to be great than actually be great. I expect the majority of those working I large companies will have seen this time and time again.

Anyway [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION] - perhaps you're better off. Remember, even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat.

A rat or a dirty rat!

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Not so much “sucking up”, more like the amount of blood they can suck out of YOU. Things were bad enough when I retired: I get told that life in the corporate world is getting tougher and tougher at the expense of people’s health and wellbeing. I’m glad I’m not still on the carousel.

 

[Justice]

I'm so glad I'm my own boss, from the outside it's sounds like utter madness you honestly sound like lab rats and the lucky one gets picked.

 

[looney]

what on earth is a "group interview" ?

Bear in mind I last changed roles in 2001 and because the boss already knew me he told me not to bother to turn up for the interview.
The one before that was a chat in the cafe.
The only other one was in the 80's.

Usually to test social skills and team work disguised as something else. There was 30 of us in a room for 9 positions.

We all got seated in a big Circle and given tea coffee and biccies. This is to weed out slurpers and people who eat with there mouths open. We got set a few tasks, the first was asked a question and one after the other replied to it. I praised the answer of the person who spoke beforre me and built on it. I got the job, a few fell early.

Sounds to me the OP was overbearing if he "managed to change the minds" of the other 2. Its not about being right but how you conduct yourself.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Usually to test social skills and team work disguised as something else. There was 30 of us in a room for 9 positions.

We all got seated in a big Circle and given tea coffee and biccies. This is to weed out slurpers and people who eat with there mouths open. We got set a few tasks, the first was asked a question and one after the other replied to it. I praised the answer of the person who spoke beforre me and built on it. I got the job, a few fell early.

Sounds to me the OP was overbearing if he "managed to change the minds" of the other 2. Its not about being right but how you conduct yourself.

I really wasn't overbearing as one woman was none stopping talking the other hardly said a word and I also showed that I agreed with some of their decisions but they were being indecisive without getting anywhere so the boss asked so what are we going for then so I was decisive and picked what I thought was the best and the other two said yes I also think that also.
But the bosses reason was he didn't feel I was forceful enough.

 

[Justice]

Usually to test social skills and team work disguised as something else. There was 30 of us in a room for 9 positions.

We all got seated in a big Circle and given tea coffee and biccies. This is to weed out slurpers and people who eat with there mouths open. We got set a few tasks, the first was asked a question and one after the other replied to it. I praised the answer of the person who spoke beforre me and built on it. I got the job, a few fell early.

Sounds to me the OP was overbearing if he "managed to change the minds" of the other 2. Its not about being right but how you conduct yourself.

I may be old fashioned, if I'm hiring I want the best person for the job, group interviews IMO your seeing an act. Someone who's a little shy could have all the skills required with a brilliant mind yet some knob in a suit wants to hire a loud mouth. Don't get this technique at all.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Could never do the bum licking required when working for a large charge card company in Brighton, saw less able people get promoted who felt able to do the required, in the end our department got out sourced and relocated out of Sussex. We all pretty much got made redundant regardless of nose colours. Probably still can't do the creeping which doesn't do me any favours on things like NSC.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

It does sound in this case like the new boss had already made their mind up and HR were either trying to be, or appear to be, a bit more objective. In such cases it's always worth getting feedback and making them explain the assessment process. Where I work, it is pretty rigid as the competencies are set out in a job profile and you are scored against each depending on the evidence you present, which should be examples of things you have done. If the job advert/profile listed these, then it is totally reasonable for you to expect them to be able to give you feedback on each. From your description of them I suspect that this is something your new boss will probably try and palm off on HR, I would consider insisting they do it themselves as they will have set out the expectations of the role.

 

[madinthehead]

Today has been somewhat of a Sh+t day @ the office as they say.

Went for an interview yesterday, my first for 15 years and it was a group interview........no pressure there then! After that the one on one interview.

Fortunately pressure doesn't faze me in these situation and just excites me.

Round 1

The Group interview

From the off I felt poor body language from the recently promoted boss, but the HR girls were giving all the right signals, there were 3 of us with 3 shadowing us, I felt I had excelled in all that was asked of me, i didn't think i was over zealous in the tasks but took control at the same time, which was for a team leader role, something i have had 20 years experience in and to my knowledge i was out in and in pole position for experience.

Round 2

The face to face interview.

I was last to be interviewed an hour an a half wait, but didn't bother me as brushed up on some of the potential answers.

It was a quick fire style 15 ish question with me asking questions at the end.

Personally i thought i answered the questions all but perfect for the position with eye contact good body language and plenty of enthusiasm to the boss and the HR girl.

The boss didn't give me much eye contact and was slumping in his chair, whilst the HR girl was nodding agreeing with every answer i gave.

I came out feeling i had done all that was asked and could not have done much better, just a bit concerned of the bosses poor body language.

Today

Boss called early this morning to say I didn't get the position, I asked for feedback and he said I felt that your were not going to be able to motivate the team as i didn't feel the enthusiasm, eh FFS enthusiasm was coming out of my lug holes you **** and I didn't take lead in the group interview, eh yes i did, I persuaded the other two candidates to change their mind on the role plays we were given.


I should state at this point that a new company has just bought them and is re- structuring with big changes and cutting 14 field roles to just 6 and unfortunately there was no longer a role in my area, so it was this role or the dole.


I always had my eye on this position anyhow, so it didn't worry me.


Gutted.


So what went wrong

As others have said, it sounds like you didn't have a fair chance from the start.. But, on the plus side, you have learned how group interviews feel and have had a bit of interview experience.
I have also had interviews where the reason given for me not getting the role makes no sense. Put it down to experience and move on. From your post, you seem a confident person, I am sure you will do well in future interviews.