How much is the Referendum Campaign influencing you?

[Albumen]

Except vote them out, of course.
If you think Sovereignty is a joke then I think you should move to elsewhere in Europe. Traitor.

Wow.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The sovereignty argument is a joke. It's about those that used to be in power and decided and controlled what happened want to do so again without their excesses being reigned in by the EU. The electorate don't decide manifestos and there is little they can do when a government do things that weren't even in the manifesto.

Indeed. Boris Johnson is interested only in enhancing the power of Boris Johnson and his chums. If "the British People" imagine that this is anything to do with us getting greater control over our lives, we are very much mistaken.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The sovereignty argument is a joke. It's about those that used to be in power and decided and controlled what happened want to do so again without their excesses being reigned in by the EU. The electorate don't decide manifestos and there is little they can do when a government do things that weren't even in the manifesto.

It is a joke to you as you have a convenient level of cynicism or contempt for the concept which helps you justify your opinion. It's about returning power to UK politicians good or bad who we can hold to account. They are more likely to be acting in this countries (our) interest as they need our vote to retain/acquire power. Rather than continually giving power to other countries politicians good or bad who we have 0% chance of holding to account, cannot vote out and who prioritise their electorates wishes over ours. The UK public reign in the excesses of our Governments by voting them out. Those that want to rely on the EU to do this show their true colours having contempt for our electorate and our democracy which is also why they don't consider sovereignty to be an issue. Political parties have to tailor their manifestos to appeal to the largest proportion of the electorate and can be voted out of office if they don't deliver. It ain't perfect, numerous flaws etc but it works.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You're living in cloud cuckoo land. Who do you think actually decides policy? Those with a vested interest, banks, big business, those with money, or the electorate?

You mean all those that want you to vote remain? Best do as your told then.

 

[cunning fergus]

The sovereignty argument is a joke. It's about those that used to be in power and decided and controlled what happened want to do so again without their excesses being reigned in by the EU. The electorate don't decide manifestos and there is little they can do when a government do things that weren't even in the manifesto.

I see.

Can you explain why many people on the left, who are fervently pro EU and campaigning for remain want radical change to the EU to make sure it's more democratic and not predisposed to "excesses" like what happened in Spain, Greece, Cyprus and what s unfolding in France.

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-7cc6-Democratic-EU-is-vital

When people who are on the same side present arguments that are at polar opposites, people should think what is going on here?

You can't both be right, one of you lot is lying.

 

[drew]

It is a joke to you as you have a convenient level of cynicism or contempt for the concept which helps you justify your opinion. It's about returning power to UK politicians good or bad who we can hold to account. They are more likely to be acting in this countries (our) interest as they need our vote to retain/acquire power. Rather than continually giving power to other countries politicians good or bad who we have 0% chance of holding to account, cannot vote out and who prioritise their electorates wishes over ours. The UK public reign in the excesses of our Governments by voting them out. Those that want to rely on the EU to do this show their true colours having contempt for our electorate and our democracy which is also why they don't consider sovereignty to be an issue. Political parties have to tailor their manifestos to appeal to the largest proportion of the electorate and can be voted out of office if they don't deliver. It ain't perfect, numerous flaws etc but it works.

Really? The largest proportion of the electorate didn't vote for this government (or pretty much most governments).

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Wow.

Aye, just a typical insult from the brexit camp I'm afraid

 

[drew]

I see.

Can you explain why many people on the left, who are fervently pro EU and campaigning for remain want radical change to the EU to make sure it's more democratic and not predisposed to "excesses" like what happened in Spain, Greece, Cyprus and what s unfolding in France.

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-7cc6-Democratic-EU-is-vital

When people who are on the same side present arguments that are at polar opposites, people should think what is going on here?

You can't both be right, one of you lot is lying.

The EU is not perfect. What is wrong with wanting to make it more democratic from within?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It is a joke to you as you have a convenient level of cynicism or contempt for the concept which helps you justify your opinion. It's about returning power to UK politicians good or bad who we can hold to account. They are more likely to be acting in this countries (our) interest as they need our vote to retain/acquire power. Rather than continually giving power to other countries politicians good or bad who we have 0% chance of holding to account, cannot vote out and who prioritise their electorates wishes over ours. The UK public reign in the excesses of our Governments by voting them out. Those that want to rely on the EU to do this show their true colours having contempt for our electorate and our democracy which is also why they don't consider sovereignty to be an issue. Political parties have to tailor their manifestos to appeal to the largest proportion of the electorate and can be voted out of office if they don't deliver. It ain't perfect, numerous flaws etc but it works.

Returning power to Boris Johnson, Michael Gove & Ian Duncan Smith?
I'd rather vote Remain.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Returning power to Boris Johnson, Michael Gove & Ian Duncan Smith?
I'd rather vote Remain.

Me too.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

I see there is a 'Lexit' campaign website now

http://www.leftleave.org/about-2/

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Really? The largest proportion of the electorate didn't vote for this government (or pretty much most governments).

Who said they did? I said political parties have to tailor their manifestos to appeal to the largest proportion of the electorate possible .. which they do if they want to form a Government. Elections are won and lost in the centre ground (normally).

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Returning power to Boris Johnson, Michael Gove & Ian Duncan Smith?
I'd rather vote Remain.

Returning power to the UK government.

 

[Albumen]

Aye, just a typical insult from the brexit camp I'm afraid

Yep. Forgive me for not giving a rats arse for whatever falls out of a rich girls vag. No, not The Tower, pleeeasse!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Except vote them out, of course.
If you think Sovereignty is a joke then I think you should move to elsewhere in Europe. Traitor.

 

[drew]

Who said they did? I said political parties have to tailor their manifestos to appeal to the largest proportion of the electorate possible .. which they do if they want to form a Government. Elections are won and lost in the centre ground (normally).

The trouble is you put one little cross next to the name of a representative of a party and that is seen as a massive endorsement of every single policy they have (and, in respect of a top down reorganisation of the NHS, a policy they didn't even have in their manifesto!).

 

[Trufflehound]

I see there is a 'Lexit' campaign website now

http://www.leftleave.org/about-2/

Are they the Brexit People's Front, or the People's Front of Brexit? I get confused.

 

[cunning fergus]

The EU is not perfect. What is wrong with wanting to make it more democratic from within?

Nothing, if it could be achieved. There's the nub IF.

Fact is the narrative of this debate, is NOT lets change the EU to be more democratically accountable and transparent. You are not arguing for that, you are disregarding the reality that democratically elected national governments can be rendered subordinate to the whims of the EU.

The narrative of this movement for remain to change draws out all the issues that out are highlighting s a problem.

The only difference (for those not in denial) is how to address these manifest problems.

Stay and hope to effect change.

Leave and regain sovereignty.

 

[spring hall convert]

It's influencing me to self-harm. That's about it.

 

[ROSM]

You have no way of knowing if it would be worse if we went back.There is a strong argument to suggest we would be welcomed back with open arms.

Nobody joining now gets a rebate like we do. Everybody joining now is expected to join the single currency

And as for the person saying I'm sure we could negotiate a deal' it took the Swiss and norwegians over 10 yrs to do that.

But then why vote leave if in effect you want the same deal at the same terms?

Has it come to this that the leave are now saying 'vote leave and you can always come back if it doesn't work out'

Some very expensive experiment that with no evidence to support it but lots to go against it