How much is the Referendum Campaign influencing you?

[Herr Tubthumper]

That said, those higher minded people could always pay more tax or forgo their inheritance. That would definitely win these types of argument?

I chose to pay more tax. Maybe that's why things work here?

#HigherMinded

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What experience of life has a 17 year old?

They're not burdened with baggage, prejudiced and stuck in their ways with a false sense of superiority?

 

[fork me]

My general concern about this referendum is it was too big a decision for a public who on the whole will not have the correct level of information to make the right decision. However having witnessed the level of absurdity around the arguments being put forward it seems the politicians do not have a clue either.

If I am honest I am very nervous about this referendum it feels rushed and we do not appear to have surfaced or debated the merits either way in a sensible or logical fashion.

I agree, I don't think we should be having this referendum at all.

I voted to stay, I'm not an economist, I don't have the expertise to say for sure whether we're better off in our out, however, from where I'm sitting "out" seems like a huge gamble, particularly for the younger generation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree, I don't think we should be having this referendum at all.

I voted to stay, I'm not an economist, I don't have the expertise to say for sure whether we're better off in our out, however, from where I'm sitting "out" seems like a huge gamble, particularly for the younger generation.

This. If people don't like the EU vote for a party that wants to leave. Complete ****ing waste of time and money this referendum.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This poll, when tallied up, shows 'leave' is winning...

Count it again.

 

[cunning fergus]

I chose to pay more tax. Maybe that's why things work here?

#HigherMinded

Heavy drinking, 40 a day smoking lottery addicted people could argue the same...........there is more than one way to be altruistic. It's those who tell you about it that are painful.

For example, I think those people who advocate (and support) the oft used argument these days that "we are all immigrants" can only be taken seriously if they don't benefit from any inheritance passed down to them from their family. If they really felt that way that would sell it and donate it to a migrant charity.

We would see how #higherminded they really are then wouldn't we?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Need should not dominate underlying reality which is simply affordability.

Until the UK earns more than it pays out, paying out on the different needs of individuals is a luxury we can't afford.

That said, those higher minded people could always pay more tax or forgo their inheritance. That would definitely win these types of argument?

I'm sorry, but paying out on the different needs of individuals is PRECISELY the principle that the NHS works to.

 

[Hampster Gull]

What experience of life has a 17 year old? Their views are generally idealistic.

They can fight for the country as a soldier but not vote on its direction. Nice.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Heavy drinking, 40 a day smoking lottery addicted people could argue the same...........there is more than one way to be altruistic. It's those who tell you about it that are painful.

For example, I think those people who advocate (and support) the oft used argument these days that "we are all immigrants" can only be taken seriously if they don't benefit from any inheritance passed down to them from their family. If they really felt that way that would sell it and donate it to a migrant charity.

We would see how #higherminded they really are then wouldn't we?

#muddledthinking #isolationism #itssomeoneelsesfault

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

#muddledthinking #isolationism #itssomeoneelsesfault

Quite. There's a certain bitterness and envy to his posts as well. Maybe he should have tried a bit harder at school. It's easy to blame someone else when things don't work out.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm sorry, but paying out on the different needs of individuals is PRECISELY the principle that the NHS works to.

Don't apologise, I just disagree with you.

The NHS following on from the Beveridge Report was founded on the principle of providing comprehensive CURATIVE and PREVENTATIVE treatments for individuals (see attached memo from National Archives, para 25).

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/creation-national-health-service.htm

So why then does the NHS pay for treatments such as IVF?

People want it, and could no doubt argue they need it, but why should the taxpayer fund it when it is beyond the founding principle of the NHS.

If those who founded the NHS could see how it was being used, what it is providing and who was accessing it they would be appalled.

When it was being created there was a massive disagreement about whether it should provide free glasses, the decision to allow it to cover glasses lead to a surge in demand and almost immediately the consequences this decision meant the NHS was in debt.

If there was such an extetential debate at the genesis of the NHS about providing glasses, where do you think gastric bands and sex change treatments would have got on the list of treatments?

We both know the answer.

 

[cunning fergus]

#muddledthinking #isolationism #itssomeoneelsesfault

Go on indulge me, if those who argue that "we are all immigrants" really believe what they say, then surely you agree that they would not want to benefit from the assets and/or property of their forebears.

Until such people who make this argument are prepared to disregard inheritance either received or to passed down to their children then they are nothing more than untrustworthy hypocrites.

That's shorthand for Tories and rich privately educated Labour MPs usually.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Go on indulge me, if those who argue that "we are all immigrants" really believe what they say, then surely you agree that they would not want to benefit from the assets and/or property of their forebears.

Until such people who make this argument are prepared to disregard inheritance either received or to passed down to their children then they are nothing more than untrustworthy hypocrites.

That's shorthand for Tories and rich privately educated Labour MPs usually.

Can you slow down for a minute and explain what you're rambling on about? Who has said were all immigrants? Has anyone said anything about inheritance? I'm puzzled why you're repeatedly now making these points.

 

[pastafarian]

This. If people don't like the EU vote for a party that wants to leave. Complete ****ing waste of time and money this referendum.

its been a great idea,far more people are now informed on the workings of The EU than were previously.And you cant get much more democratic than a referendum.

You would get your lederhosen in a right twist if countries around Europe voted in anti EU parties on say a 37% vote share and then started pulling themselves out of The EU without any national referendums.

 

[Caveman]

Count it again.

You're right slight shift since I posted, unless I counted wrong. Now leave is 84 , stay 95.... But 21 don't know? Very close as the other poll showed.

 

[pastafarian]

Can you slow down for a minute and explain what you're rambling on about? Who has said were all immigrants? Has anyone said anything about inheritance? I'm puzzled why you're repeatedly now making these points.

someone recently said on the other EU thread its nonsense about keeping foreigners out,.....lets keep free movement after all we are all immigrants,you hear this claptrap all the time

what he meant to say of course was keep free movement we are all immigrants except for you non european types who should continue to get permission as we dont want to be totally swamped and actually like the safety net of your continued controlled immigration

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

someone recently said on the other EU thread its nonsense about keeping foreigners out,.....lets keep free movement after all we are all immigrants,you hear this claptrap all the time

what he meant to say of course was keep free movement we are all immigrants except for you non european types who should continue to get permission as we dont want to be totally swamped and actually like the safety net of your continued controlled immigration

You and Fergus just seem to be posting random things today. What's this got to do with what I posted?

 

[jaghebby]

Low birth rates are the cause - I have heard it all now! Exactly how do you think the birthrates should be increased. Seems to me that the underlying premise of that argument is that an increase in population would be ok if it was British but not ok if it was non British. Some might say that was at best bigotted and at worse racist! You mention that we can control immigration by a points based system - but the only way to continue to have full access to the Single Market without staying in the EU would be to join Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein in the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), an intergovernmental organisation promoting free trade, and signing the European Economic Area (EEA) Agreement. The agreement gives full access to the Single Market in return for implementation in national law of EU legislation covering goods, services and capital, as well as the free movement of people. So exactly how would that control immigration when we would still be required to the free movement of people? Or do you want to not have access to the single market? As Del boy would say what a plonker!

 

[Hampster Gull]

Go on indulge me, if those who argue that "we are all immigrants" really believe what they say, then surely you agree that they would not want to benefit from the assets and/or property of their forebears.

Until such people who make this argument are prepared to disregard inheritance either received or to passed down to their children then they are nothing more than untrustworthy hypocrites.

That's shorthand for Tories and rich privately educated Labour MPs usually.

Have you been on the sauce early this bank holiday monday? There have been waves of migrants to these shores over the centuries, helping shape and forge this country. What has this got to do with inheritance, taxation and private education?

 

[pastafarian]

You and Fergus just seem to be posting random things today. What's this got to do with what I posted?

you asked a question

Who has said were all immigrants?

i gave you an answer,i think it was actually hamster as well,but cant be bothered to double check