How much is the Referendum Campaign influencing you?

[JC Footy Genius]

Surely it is better for your children if the economy is stronger and bigger which would lead them to a greater ability to buy their own homes? I can't be denied that house prices are very high but a smaller economy shrinking demand is not the answer to the problem - building more houses is.

240 houses every day for 20 years just to deal with migration not to clear the huge backlog and of course no one can say for certain what size our economy will be in or out of the EU in the coming years. But we know we have no control over EU immigration rates.

I think the older generation is duty bound to guide the youngsters and make use of their vast life experience. One bit of advice being don't believe what a Tory PM tells you about our future in Europe (or most things !?). Once bitten twice shy.

“There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified.”

Prime Minister Edward Heath, television broadcast on Britain’s entry into the Common Market, January 1973

 

[Sorrel]

On the subject of borders ... has anyone noticed the concern that is being expressed in Gibraltar about the threat to the open border with Spain that Brexit poses? I don't know if there is a real prospect of the Spanish government taking up the opportunity to create a real, well enforced boundary between the EU and a British colony, but it certainly seems to be an issue that is troubling Gibraltarians.

I can't see this issue making a difference to the referendum vote but, post-Brexit, I can see things getting sticky as far as the UK's relationship with Spain is concerned.

Definitely think this would be an issue - as would any EU support for the Falklands remaining British.

It's ironic as far as Gibraltar is concerned because the territory has now been British for a lot longer than it has ever been Spanish - there really is no reason why it should be Spanish if Portugal isn't.

 

[e77]

I went to a panel at the Fabian Society Summer Conference last weekend about polling and the like and the current thinking is men's positions on the referendum are fairly entrenched but women are more undecided.

 

[cunning fergus]

They are wrong to have higher notions about self and country?

Yeah I'll just tell her to give up and expect the worst.

Well her generational peers are suffering in other parts of the EU, hence why those countries are haemorrhaging their young to the richer parts of the EU.

If unemployment rates of over 50% for under 30s in some EU countries is an indicator of success you (and your daughter) are either mad or deluded.

In these parts of the EU with crushing austerity they are saying how much worse can it get?

It will get a lot worse.........ergo France is going through its own economic recalibration to bin off hard fought workers rights.

Yes, a lot worse is to come.

 

[cunning fergus]

As an older voter, I'll express the view that I want to be kept comfortable in my old age, and I'm hoping that young people will be paying for this. My best interests seem to be served by siding with younger people in this referendum. If they want to remain in the EU, that's good enough for me.

Really?

I would rather not be a ponce myself.

The young will have more than enough on their plate having to find enough money to pay for their own debts, pensions, mortgages etc. without paying for you to be economically inactive on the golf course.

To many people are relying on the state for their own ends, it should only be there for the poor working class...........I doubt you would fall into that category.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But they would be wrong..

And, Tory shills no doubt.

 

[MattBackHome]

I don't think this referendum should be happening.

 

[Hampster Gull]

As an older voter, I'll express the view that I want to be kept comfortable in my old age, and I'm hoping that young people will be paying for this. My best interests seem to be served by siding with younger people in this referendum. If they want to remain in the EU, that's good enough for me.

This is a key point. As we live longer someone has to pay. And it is unlikely to be the older generation. We need a vibrant young generation

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is a key point. As we live longer someone has to pay. And it is unlikely to be the older generation. We need a vibrant young generation

Of course we do. And anyone who knows anything about economics knows it's always someone else who pays for your pension whether it's private or state. And if your retired it stands to reason it will be someone younger.

 

[Bakero]

But they would be wrong.

The CURRENT Govt is largely committed to free market capitalism, albeit they evidently have internal difficulties with the extent of that commitment. Similarly, if we were honest, so does the Labour Party.

The Blairites are just as committed to free markets as their Tory EU supporting peers, which is why it's so moronic for some to think by voting Labour they are not supporting Tory ideology.

TTIP is a good example, because it has been shrouded in secrecy, the Commission even sought to lock down parts of the negotiation from public scrutiny for 30 years. This is an unelected institution don't forget!

If the Tories (or whatever Governing party) were to do the same in the UK the opposition would have this out in the public eye quicker than you can say Jean Claude Juncker.

Far from acting as a bulwark to protect EU citizens from rampant capitalism, it facilitates and hides it.

The closest I think we have had to this conduct in the UK is what Tony Blair and Labour did in Iraq.

Hopefully he will go to prison soon, no wonder Remain don't want him actively supporting their message.

I don't doubt blairites' or in general the EU's commitment to rampant capitalism but the fact remains that this government would sign ttip at the drop of a hat. Being in the EU has stymied this due to opposition from other member states.

 

[B52]

Wouldn't have to pay £8.5 Billion yearly membership fee?

Our fishermen would be able to fish our own waters may be another one, and one more might be our courts and judges could actually decide how to deal with criminals. I could add more but can't be arsed.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Of course we do. And anyone who knows anything about economics knows it's always someone else who pays for your pension whether it's private or state. And if your retired it stands to reason it will be someone younger.

private pensions are an investment owned by the individual and managed by an investment company. Someone else is not paying for your pension. For state pensions I would agree with you but these are not the biggest portion of retirement income for many people.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

OK if we leave will the EU remain borderless? Yes. We can't run from this so we need to fight to change it. Are we part of Schengen? No. Will we ever be? No. Can you waltz into the UK? no. The EU allows us to have British border forces on French soil. We are partners and we will only deal with this problem by working together.

We are in a forced Shengen. All those that arrive here illegally cost us money, and they never get sent back. If the EU followed the rules and the people claimed asylum in the first country they arrived in, these people wouldn't be in Calais. EU failure yet again. I will remind you again when we start seeing loads of boats being picked up in the channel, not including the people who sneak on to lorries. This country could quite easily see 500,000 people coming here a year, it is far too many. I suppose it will only hit people when it effects them personally.

 

[Soulman]

OK if we leave will the EU remain borderless? Yes. We can't run from this so we need to fight to change it. Are we part of Schengen? No. Will we ever be? No. Can you waltz into the UK? no. The EU allows us to have British border forces on French soil. We are partners and we will only deal with this problem by working together.

At the moment we are in the EU yes, we had a net figure of 330,000 immigrants last year, but over 600,000 NI numbers were given out, again i will repeat, we are in the EU.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

private pensions are an investment owned by the individual and managed by an investment company. Someone else is not paying for your pension. .

Exactly. And the work of others is earning the dividend on that investment. So someone is paying for it via their labour. You can't get around the fact that all pensions are "ponced" one way or another

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't doubt blairites' or in general the EU's commitment to rampant capitalism but the fact remains that this government would sign ttip at the drop of a hat. Being in the EU has stymied this due to opposition from other member states.

But that is in spite of the EU not because of it.

Corbyn to his credit was warning about the reach of TTIP years ago as were the unions.

There is not a country that was against it, whilst France has now come out against Hollande was all for it as far back as February.

That is the point, it was only because of popular will by activists that the true scale of TTIP has become public.

The Tories would not be able to do this in the UK because it would have to be passed by Parliament.

It was far better to pass this through the EU out of the gaze of the public........which is why it was.

It's (apparent) failure has nothing to do with the EU, far from it...........they wanted to impose a secrecy order for 30 years!!!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Exactly. And the work of others is earning the dividend on that investment. So someone is paying for it via their labour. You can't get around the fact that all pensions are "ponced" one way or another

I see what you mean. That's a fair point.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Really?

I would rather not be a ponce myself.

The young will have more than enough on their plate having to find enough money to pay for their own debts, pensions, mortgages etc. without paying for you to be economically inactive on the golf course.

To many people are relying on the state for their own ends, it should only be there for the poor working class...........I doubt you would fall into that category.

Several points ...

I continue to work, even though I have passed state retirement age.

The only time I have ever played golf regularly (on a municipal golf course, not a private members' club) was when I was 18 years old.

"Relying on the state" is more than just receiving benefits. I rely on the state, because I need the NHS to keep me going. They do a brilliant job that started with them funding an 11 hour life-saving operation, followed by three weeks recuperation in a world-class hospital, that means I will be hanging around for YEARS, needing further attention. Yes, I guess this means that I am relying on the state for my own ends. All I wish, though, is that everyone gets that opportunity, should the need arise.

I've paid taxes all my working life, but I know that I am now taking out more than I am putting in - and it is young people who are funding this.

 

[cunning fergus]

Exactly. And the work of others is earning the dividend on that investment. So someone is paying for it via their labour. You can't get around the fact that all pensions are "ponced" one way or another

This makes no sense, are you saying that workers don't get paid in listed companies that pay a dividend; assuming they pay a dividend) of course?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This makes no sense, are you saying that workers don't get paid in listed companies that pay a dividend; assuming they pay a dividend) of course?

What on earth are you on about? Of course I'm not saying this.