How much is the Referendum Campaign influencing you?

[Herr Tubthumper]

I ski every year,granted the Pyrenees and there's no brits working in the service sector

Try the French alps, say Three Valleys, Chamonix or Le Plagne. I have friends who have worked in these places as youngsters.

 

[larus]

I like to think I'm reasonably well read on how the EU operates and I've enjoyed it, and the various benefits, securities and opportunities it has offered us all. I do think it can improve, and I hear and understand the concerns of others BUT on balance I think the good it does wins out. My main issue, which has been touched on in this thread and in previous posts of mine, is that I don't want to deny younger generations the glorious opportunities it can offer.

I hope Remain wins, and I really hope the UK then gets fully engaged and involved with the EU.....and please join the Schengen as I ****ing hate the ball-ache of queuing at airports.

My thoughts are that I value democracy. I detest the fact that the European Commision are the real power/lawmakers in Europe and they are unelected.
I would like to think that I am fairly well-read on Finance matters, and the general consensus is that the EURO is unsustainable. The carnage which will be caused when that unravels (which it will eventaully - just look at Italy where it's GDP is at the level of when it joined the EURO and is still 8% below the pre 2008 crisis level, and it debt to GDP ratio is rising due to the shrinking economy).

So, I'm firmly in the remain camp as I pray that we can establish better trading relationships before the shit hits the fan, as this is the best chance of ensuring economic stability for my children's future.

Being an outer is not being Anti-European. Nor is it being a Little Englander.

I don't trust the political class, but when there's a politcal class which cannot be removed from office, that, to me, is the time to really worry.

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

I don't agree with this at all. All types of people live and work in Europe for myriad reasons, from a young lad in a hotel in Ibiza for shits and giggles right up to Simon Rattle for the cultural experience. I'm sure some chase the money but from my experience it is many other and varied reasons. I didn't come here for the money; in fact due to the higher taxes it costs me money to live here.

you know the score HT!

the brits go to France to retire

the french go to england for work

need I say more!

London is known as the 6th biggest city for french people,all there for work,not the sunshine

so some Young lad offered you some gear outside a club in Ibiza and your convinced this european melting pot works a treat

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

Try the French alps, say Three Valleys, Chamonix or Le Plagne. I have friends who have worked in these places as youngsters.

couldn't afford it!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

so some Young lad offered you some gear outside a club in Ibiza and your convinced this european melting pot works a treat

This argument is actually better than anything I've suggested

 

[pastafarian]

Going back to my point, this casual seasonal work which loads of youngsters do will be more difficult if they need visas.

Australians and Americans seem to be able to cope with getting these types seasonal work permits for europe,how is it our youngsters are going to find it so challenging it might put them off?

 

[Meade's Ball]

I began with the ins, took a slight turn to the outs with a little disapproval of the language delivered by both Cameron and Obama, but now firmly back in with the ins for the retention of workers rights that go against general tory wishes. Both campaigns have been petulant and juvenile, and i wonder if the distance their punchy acrid blather generates actually makes some doubters think Europe is not so far away from us after all.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

My thoughts are that I value democracy. I detest the fact that the European Commision are the real power/lawmakers in Europe and they are unelected.
I would like to think that I am fairly well-read on Finance matters, and the general consensus is that the EURO is unsustainable. The carnage which will be caused when that unravels (which it will eventaully - just look at Italy where it's GDP is at the level of when it joined the EURO and is still 8% below the pre 2008 crisis level, and it debt to GDP ratio is rising due to the shrinking economy).

So, I'm firmly in the remain camp as I pray that we can establish better trading relationships before the shit hits the fan, as this is the best chance of ensuring economic stability for my children's future.

Being an outer is not being Anti-European. Nor is it being a Little Englander.

I don't trust the political class, but when there's a politcal class which cannot be removed from office, that, to me, is the time to really worry.

My worry is that, if we were to leave, we'd be leaving one establishment where decisions are shared across a greater amount of people, and handed to an establishment (our Parliament and Government) that I simply don't trust. The idea of handing Michael Gove or Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn more power scares the shit out of me.

Now if we had a more democratic voting system that would allow for more political options other than the big 2, then I would seriously consider the democratic arguments. But at the moment, our own system is broken, and the people that win more than anyone else if we leave are the politicians who end up in charge of our economy. So I simply don't see the idea of voting out for democratic reasons as having any basis in reality.

 

[c0lz]

Out still out.

It doe's make me laugh had Dodgy Dave not got any concession in the EU deal he would be convincing us to vote out. and now the world would come to a end if we do.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Given once we are 'out' we can't go back, I think it's up to the leave campaign to come up with a compelling case to leave. I don't think they have done this

This is the key point. And unfortunately, they haven't done this because they simply don't know what the repercussions will be. Unfortunately, the theory suggests that they're much likelier to be negative than they are positive.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Out still out.

It doe's make me laugh had Dodgy Dave not got any concession in the EU deal he would be convincing us to vote out. and now the world would come to a end if we do.

And Cocky Corbyn would have been voting out (as he's campaigned to do for 20+ years) if he wasn't the leader of the only other political party with any power in this country...

Doesn't that tell you something?

 

[Triggaaar]

Really? I can't say I am aware of swathes of children being coerced or forced into schools every day.

You're not aware of a lot of things HT, and you don't seem to have much idea about parenting.

The older generation has completely ****ed up their education

Untrue.

given them **** all job prospects

Untrue.

and made it almost impossible to get on the housing ladder.

Untrue.

I wonder what the kids think of their elders?

Go on, tell us.

 

[c0lz]

And Cocky Corbyn would have been voting out (as he's campaigned to do for 20+ years) if he wasn't the leader of the only other political party with any power in this country...

Doesn't that tell you something?

From what I read he own personal view he still does.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

From what I read he own personal view he still does.

The point is that, for all of your clear dislike for Cameron, the only real alternative is Labour and their leader lacks the ability to have any conviction in his views, which is what you're apparently criticising Cameron for.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I began with the ins, took a slight turn to the outs with a little disapproval of the language delivered by both Cameron and Obama, but now firmly back in with the ins for the retention of workers rights that go against general tory wishes. Both campaigns have been petulant and juvenile, and i wonder if the distance their punchy acrid blather generates actually makes some doubters think Europe is not so far away from us after all.

So you want to remain in the EU to circumvent the democratic will of the British people if you don't like the way they vote?

My worry is that, if we were to leave, we'd be leaving one establishment where decisions are shared across a greater amount of people, and handed to an establishment (our Parliament and Government) that I simply don't trust. The idea of handing Michael Gove or Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn more power scares the shit out of me.

Now if we had a more democratic voting system that would allow for more political options other than the big 2, then I would seriously consider the democratic arguments. But at the moment, our own system is broken, and the people that win more than anyone else if we leave are the politicians who end up in charge of our economy. So I simply don't see the idea of voting out for democratic reasons as having any basis in reality.

To clarify you have more trust in institutions (some unelected) that represent numerous countries interests some in direct opposition to our own than the democratically elected UK government?

The only time we get to vote to supposedly influence the EU is in the European elections (using that more democratic voting system) last time the winners were UKIP. The time before that the Tories won.

 

[c0lz]

The point is that, for all of your clear dislike for Cameron, the only real alternative is Labour and their leader lacks the ability to have any conviction in his views, which is what you're apparently criticising Cameron for.

No I am criticising the tory party whom got us into this sht in the first place with all their lies and still nothing has change today.

 

[5ways]

So you want to remain in the EU to circumvent the democratic will of the British people if you don't like the way they vote?



To clarify you have more trust in institutions (some unelected) that represent numerous countries interests some in direct opposition to our own than the democratically elected UK government?

The only time we get to vote to supposedly influence the EU is in the European elections (using that more democratic voting system) last time the winners were UKIP. The time before that the Tories won.

Sounds like the answer is to take European elections more seriously then.

 

[larus]

My worry is that, if we were to leave, we'd be leaving one establishment where decisions are shared across a greater amount of people, and handed to an establishment (our Parliament and Government) that I simply don't trust. The idea of handing Michael Gove or Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn more power scares the shit out of me.

Now if we had a more democratic voting system that would allow for more political options other than the big 2, then I would seriously consider the democratic arguments. But at the moment, our own system is broken, and the people that win more than anyone else if we leave are the politicians who end up in charge of our economy. So I simply don't see the idea of voting out for democratic reasons as having any basis in reality.

The only advantage is we can eject our politicians every 5 years. The European Commission, we have NO SAY over whatsoever. They are the real power, no the MEPs.

Therefore, you are actaully saying you are happy to hand total power to a class of people who are unaccountable to the electorate. It feels as though it's dictatorship (by committee), but by the back door.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're not aware of a lot of things HT, and you don't seem to have much idea about parenting

I'm not aware of swathes of children being forced or coerced to school. Is anyone else?

Edited: reworked as it read appallingly.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Sounds like the answer is to take European elections more seriously then.

Even if we get 100% of the UK public to vote for say Labour they could still have their views completely ignored if a majority of other nations have voted in right of centre governments (or vice versa). Doesn't sound like an improvement on the UK system to me.