How do you think Boris has handled it so far ?

[Hastings gull]

Unbelievable how bereft of thought some folk are isn't it. They'll just suck up anything excreted to them.

Sadly it seems that Johnson snr was spot on when he said the British public were largely stupid.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

Yep, all those millions who are stupid and lacking your intelligence. Oh and by the way - on the subject of the stupid public:

"Public is an example of something called a collective noun: a word that denotes a single thing made up of multiple constituent parts."

 

[Bakero]

Yep, all those millions who are stupid and lacking your intelligence. Oh and by the way - on the subject of the stupid public:

"Public is an example of something called a collective noun: a word that denotes a single thing made up of multiple constituent parts."

Collective nouns are both singular and plural, unless you're American. It even explains that on the website you copy and pasted from.

 

[vegster]

Hancock on Marr as we speak " We have always had a clear strategy about dealing with this crisis " .. mnnn.

 

[Bakero]

Hancock on Marr as we speak " We have always had a clear strategy about dealing with this crisis " .. mnnn.

Do they believe it themselves?

 

[vegster]

Do they believe it themselves?

I think they do, if you say it over and over again it becomes a truth. The original " Clear Strategy " " was to wait and see / develop herd immunity / hope it goes away without much cost to the economy "

 

[abc]

Just incredible how many people think they know best, almost entirely with the benefit of hindsight and almost entirely from a position of ignorance. Every gov in the world has taken different approaches, some radically so (like Sweden) and others in a more nuanced way. ALL are doing the best they can in a global crisis where NOTHING will go perfectly. Our gov are following the medical advice whilst also being aware that the economic cost could result in more lost lives than from the virus. The medical and science advice is often conflicting and the economic path even more so. Every gov is in an impossible position and sniping along party political grounds makes the job harder, to everyone’s detriment.
I didn’t vote for them but I believe our gov are doing superbly in a truly awful and exceptional crisis.

 

[Bakero]

Just incredible how many people think they know best, almost entirely with the benefit of hindsight and almost entirely from a position of ignorance. Every gov in the world has taken different approaches, some radically so (like Sweden) and others in a more nuanced way. ALL are doing the best they can in a global crisis where NOTHING will go perfectly. Our gov are following the medical advice whilst also being aware that the economic cost could result in more lost lives than from the virus. The medical and science advice is often conflicting and the economic path even more so. Every gov is in an impossible position and sniping along party political grounds makes the job harder, to everyone’s detriment.
I didn’t vote for them but I believe our gov are doing superbly in a truly awful and exceptional crisis.

What makes you think they are doing superbly compared to Germany, for example?

 

[Baker lite]

Just incredible how many people think they know best, almost entirely with the benefit of hindsight and almost entirely from a position of ignorance. Every gov in the world has taken different approaches, some radically so (like Sweden) and others in a more nuanced way. ALL are doing the best they can in a global crisis where NOTHING will go perfectly. Our gov are following the medical advice whilst also being aware that the economic cost could result in more lost lives than from the virus. The medical and science advice is often conflicting and the economic path even more so. Every gov is in an impossible position and sniping along party political grounds makes the job harder, to everyone’s detriment.
I didn’t vote for them but I believe our gov are doing superbly in a truly awful and exceptional crisis.

Excellent post, well said.


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[spring hall convert]

I didn’t vote for them but I believe our gov are doing superbly in a truly awful and exceptional crisis.

Was Boris Johnson joking about shaking Coronavirus patients hands a month ago "superb"?
Was it superb that until 13 March the Government was still pursuing herd immunity despite anyone capable of the most basic mental arithmetic being able to work out that there was no conceivable way the NHS could cope with that?
Is it "superb" that healthcare professionals are STILL being asked to work without PPE?
Is it "superb" that non-essential businesses are STILL making people go to work because the instruction is STILL unclear and unenforceable?
Is it "superb" that we are STILL talking about "ramping up" testing rather than getting on with it?
Is it "superb" that we have absolutely no idea what the plan is to get out of lockdown, presumably because in order to get out of lockdown we are going to need to have a proper testing system?
Is it "superb" that our number of deaths is climbing at a rate that is now comparable with Spain at the same stage? Ahead of France, ahead of Germany.

They've been caught completely with their pants down because a) the NHS had been allowed to degenerate into a state of permacrisis as a result of 10 years of underfunding b) they ignored and suppressed the awful results of their own stress test of the NHS to cope with a pandemic in 2016 c) they approached the early days of the crisis more concerned with how we stay open for business rather than how we save lives - despite having the luxury of a head start on China, Italy & Spain d) even when they conceded that we had a serious problem, the path to lockdown was slow and vague, the effects of which we are seeing in the numbers of deaths right now.

We are now in a place where we are still having conversations about PPE and testing, things that should have been sorted a month / six weeks ago (in the case of PPE we've had since 2016 to get this right.) Surely the knowledge that the NHS had failed the pandemic stress test in 2016 would have got their arses in gear in late Feb/early March at least?

The conversations we should be having now are about a) what the path to getting out of lockdown is b) how we ensure we don't have to go back into lockdown once we are out c) the eventual immunisation program - but we can't because we are miles behind where we should be.

The only way you can classify our response "superb" is in comparison to America's. That's a pretty low bar.

 

[Bakero]

Was Boris Johnson joking about shaking Coronavirus patients hands a month ago "superb"?
Was it superb that until 13 March the Government was still pursuing herd immunity despite anyone capable of the most basic mental arithmetic being able to work out that there was no conceivable way the NHS could cope with that?
Is it "superb" that healthcare professionals are STILL being asked to work without PPE?
Is it "superb" that non-essential businesses are STILL making people go to work because the instruction is STILL unclear and unenforceable?
Is it "superb" that we are STILL talking about "ramping up" testing rather than getting on with it?
Is it "superb" that we have absolutely no idea what the plan is to get out of lockdown, presumably because in order to get out of lockdown we are going to need to have a proper testing system?
Is it "superb" that our number of deaths is climbing at a rate that is now comparable with Spain at the same stage? Ahead of France, ahead of Germany.

They've been caught completely with their pants down because a) the NHS had been allowed to degenerate into a state of permacrisis as a result of 10 years of underfunding b) they ignored and suppressed the awful results of their own stress test of the NHS to cope with a pandemic in 2016 c) they approached the early days of the crisis more concerned with how we stay open for business rather than how we save lives - despite having the luxury of a head start on China, Italy & Spain d) even when they conceded that we had a serious problem, the path to lockdown was slow and vague, the effects of which we are seeing in the numbers of deaths right now.

We are now in a place where we are still having conversations about PPE and testing, things that should have been sorted a month / six weeks ago (in the case of PPE we've had since 2016 to get this right.) Surely the knowledge that the NHS had failed the pandemic stress test in 2016 would have got their arses in gear in late Feb/early March at least?

The conversations we should be having now are about a) what the path to getting out of lockdown is b) how we ensure we don't have to go back into lockdown once we are out c) the eventual immunisation program - but we can't because we are miles behind where we should be.

The only way you can classify our response "superb" is in comparison to America's. That's a pretty low bar.

Hey, man. Let's get behind the government! We can ask questions later after we leave them to **** it up a bit more.

 

[Mr Bridger]

Just incredible how many people think they know best, almost entirely with the benefit of hindsight and almost entirely from a position of ignorance. Every gov in the world has taken different approaches, some radically so (like Sweden) and others in a more nuanced way. ALL are doing the best they can in a global crisis where NOTHING will go perfectly. Our gov are following the medical advice whilst also being aware that the economic cost could result in more lost lives than from the virus. The medical and science advice is often conflicting and the economic path even more so. Every gov is in an impossible position and sniping along party political grounds makes the job harder, to everyone’s detriment.
I didn’t vote for them but I believe our gov are doing superbly in a truly awful and exceptional crisis.

You do realise that most who post on here live in a perfect world

 

[spring hall convert]

Hey, man. Let's get behind the government! We can ask questions later after we leave them to **** it up a bit more.

And then the eventual public enquiry whitewash will blame NHS managers (a la Grenfell & firefighters) and the British public at large. Keep yer eyes peeled.

 

[Bakero]

You do realise that most who post on here live in a perfect world

Nobody's expecting perfection. But following best practice would be nice.

 

[spring hall convert]

You do realise that most who post on here live in a perfect world

Yes, I definitely asking way too much that healthcare assistants in NHS wards on £9 per hour aren't pressurised to work without the correct PPE because the government a) ignored one of its own reports and b) in the knowledge that we were unprepared to cope with a pandemic were still too slow to respond to the unfolding crisis.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/03/uk/thomas-harvey-uk-coronavirus-intl-gbr/index.html

Once the dust has settled here, the lawyers are going to have a field day with these cases.

 

[Mr Bridger]

Yes, I definitely asking way too much that healthcare assistants in NHS wards on £9 per hour aren't pressurised to work without the correct PPE because the government a) ignored one of its own reports and b) in the knowledge that we were unprepared to cope with a pandemic were still too slow to respond to the unfolding crisis.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/03/uk/thomas-harvey-uk-coronavirus-intl-gbr/index.html

Once the dust has settled here, the lawyers are going to have a field day with these cases.

Yeah it’s easy to deal with this pandemic stuff, why haven’t we learnt from the last one

 

[spring hall convert]

Yeah it’s easy to deal with this pandemic stuff, why haven’t we learnt from the last one

We could have had a healthcare system that wasn't in crisis as a state of normalcy.
We could have learnt from the failed NHS pandemic stress test in 2016.
We could have learnt from the countries who were going through it in the weeks up to and including Friday 13 March when we were still pretending there wasn't a problem - especially when you consider we already knew we had failed the pandemic stress test.

 

[Machiavelli]

You do realise that most who post on here live in a perfect world

I do realise that you're determined to make this world less perfect than it already is

 

[Mr Bridger]

We could have had a healthcare system that wasn't in crisis as a state of normalcy.
We could have learnt from the failed NHS pandemic stress test in 2016.
We could have learnt from the countries who were going through it in the weeks up to and including Friday 13 March when we were still pretending there wasn't a problem - especially when you consider we already knew we had failed the pandemic stress test.

Because every other nation involved in this has cracked it perfectly, if only we did what they did. Or Sweden for that matter.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes, I definitely asking way too much that healthcare assistants in NHS wards on £9 per hour aren't pressurised to work without the correct PPE because the government a) ignored one of its own reports and b) in the knowledge that we were unprepared to cope with a pandemic were still too slow to respond to the unfolding crisis.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/03/uk/thomas-harvey-uk-coronavirus-intl-gbr/index.html

Once the dust has settled here, the lawyers are going to have a field day with these cases.

23 year old Phillipino nurse without proper protective equipment couldn't go home from Watford General because they were short staffed, has died.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-coronavirus-nurse-23-dies-21815561

 

[spring hall convert]

Because every other nation involved in this has cracked it perfectly, if only we did what they did. Or Sweden for that matter.

We can't compare with Sweden - their population density is nothing like ours - maybe they can get away with it, I doubt it though. What they have done up to this point is no worse than our approach though.

The ballsup on herd immunity in this country was a very simple one that even the most basic mental arithmetic revealed - the number of people that would have ended up needing hospital treatment way exceeded the NHS's capacity to deal with it. It didn't need modelling, all you needed was the % of people hospitalised and it was abundantly clear.

As I said a few pages back when I was ignored talking about 'measures of success,' I think it is reasonable to compare us to France and Germany, similar sized populations, similar economic strengths. I think the disadvantage of having a higher population density is offset by the extra time we had to prepare.

The respective trajectories now suggest that we will exceed both France and Germany's deaths (both France and Germany are a couple of weeks ahead of us) It's also likely looking at the graphs at the moment that we will exceed Italy's death toll.

There is also a longer term economic question that won't be answered for 6, 12, 18 months.

What would you say the measures of success are? And how are we performing against those measures currently?