[Misc] How can the NHS survive in its current form ?

[drew]

A means tested system, a hybrid of sorts. Free for those that can’t afford it and health insurance required for those earning enough.

And would they all join the same queue for treatment? I doubt it.

 

[Dave the OAP]

sorry wrong thread

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can't be done. In a democracy, nothing can be ultimately apolitical because the elected representatives must be able to change it.

If an apolitical body decided that the NHS should be replaced by a system like the USA has, would that be better than letting politicians do it? If an apolitical body decided that the NHS was the perfect system, and all it needed was an extra 10p on income tax, would that be better? Nothing can be above democracy, except dictatorship.

The judiciary is apolitical. MHRA is. This is two without even thinking….must be more.

 

[Machiavelli]

The judiciary is apolitical. MHRA is. This is two without even thinking….must be more.

Unusually, I agree with the poster you're responding to, and not you.

 

[Glawstergull]

Controversial !
A former neighbour of mine was admitted to hospital at Christmas. Apparently she weighs around 35 stone, which equates to 222 kilos. She doesn't get out of bed. It took 3 ambulances and 2 fire engines, one with a platform, to get her out of her property. This involved removing a 1st floor window. Within less than a week, the fire engines and ambulances got her back into her property via the bedroom window. Presumably, because of the pressure on hospital beds, she was discharged too early. Yesterday evening, she was readmitted to hospital. This process involved 3 ambulances, 2 fire engines, a platform, the removal of her window, and I suspect that the road was closed off again. Only god knows how many personnel have been involved so far in the ongoing removal / reinstatement processes.
How much is this costing and who foots the bill ? Is there a financial cut off point, or does this go on until the NHS is bled dry ? I appreciate that the NHS strives to do everything to enable the individual to stay in their own home, but surely this is unsustainable. Shouldn't she be encouraged to sell her property, and use the proceeds from the sale to fund her nursing home fees ?

Irrespective of this ladies situation and the costs involved in this simple task of getting one person to any appointment i believe your question is really about our expectations and the fit for purpose of the NHS as a whole.
I think it is much the same as the state pension situation.
There are far more people than the funding model can support.
The question is ultimately what are we prepared to pay and what is the minimum requirement.
Its long term success has nothing about the current government or parties at all.
It's a stop the bus scenario.
Rethink, recalculate and decide. Also chuck in a way of stopping the ridiculous mismanagement and waste as well as the the long term lazy/sick/don't actually exist workers that make up all public sector workforces.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The judiciary is apolitical. MHRA is. This is two without even thinking….must be more.

The Supreme Court was created by politicians as recently as 2005 and could be brought down by politicians, just as the judicial supremacy of the House of Lords was. And MHRA, even more so - do you really think that if the MHRA started making decisions to quadruple its budget and to release (as a matter of course) untested drugs, they would get away with it?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

MHRA, even more so - do you really think that if the MHRA started making decisions to quadruple its budget and to release (as a matter of course) untested drugs, they would get away with it?

Edit. Can’t be arsed.

 

[tigertim68]

Pretty obvious why the NHS is struggling, too many people in this country now , the population has increased by 10 million people in the last decade, all these new houses being built , and how many new hospitals or doctors surgeries are there ,
too many people not contributing in this country , over 2 million people not working on so called sick benefits,
plus all the other people who don’t contribute and don’t pay for it ,
this is why it is struggling

 

[sydney]

Again, all bolloxs. I can counteract that with my anecdotal evidence that after four jabs I've had absolutely no reaction. But that isn't scientific evidence, as isn't anecdotal crap on facebook etc etc. I had covid last Dec with no symptoms yet had it again in August with high temp and headaches for a couple of days. Without the vaccine who's to say it wouldn't have been much worse, certainly not a bunch of conspiracy theorists on FB or Andrew Bridgen!! You make it sound like the vaccine started from scratch, it didn't. Scientists already had a lot of knowledge about this type of virus. They had sequenced the genome of the virus as early as 24th Jan 2020 and it was 70% the same as Sars

some people can eat prawns and peanuts without an anyphylactic reaction , some people can get stung by bees or wasps without issues .......covid is a franchised flu and in 5 years time i will talk to you again when it costs you two pound fifty every time you fart....people like you are a massive problem , swallowed it hook line and sinker , 21st century dream boat passenger.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Keir Starmer has said Labour is prepared to reform the NHS to prevent it dying, as he said the current system of GP visits “isn’t working”.
The Labour leader said his party was going to tackle “bureaucratic nonsense” in the NHS and argued people should be able to self-refer themselves to a physio for back pain or to order a test for “internal bleeding” rather than having to see a GP.
Starmer set out his views on the health service in interviews with the BBC and the Sunday Telegraph, saying: “If we don’t get real about reform, the NHS will die.”

Least he has the balls to say it

 

[drew]

some people can eat prawns and peanuts without an anyphylactic reaction , some people can get stung by bees or wasps without issues .......covid is a franchised flu and in 5 years time i will talk to you again when it costs you two pound fifty every time you fart....people like you are a massive problem , swallowed it hook line and sinker , 21st century dream boat passenger.

Lol. The problem is that people like you think no one should have had a vaccination, there shouldn't have been any lockdowns and masks were a waste of time and didn't stop anything.

 

[beorhthelm]

Lol. The problem is that people like you think no one should have had a vaccination, there shouldn't have been any lockdowns and masks were a waste of time and didn't stop anything.

i cant understand why there is any discussion about vaccines. the west had programmes of vaccination, got broadly immune* and moved on last year. China did not vaccinate, tried lockdowns, failed and only now openning up while having hundreds of thousands of cases and unknown death rate (literally, their official data is non-existent). we've conducted a world scale experiment on the benefits of vaccination and found they work really well. see also every other vaccination programme over the past 50 years.

*accepting there was not actually full 100% immunity, suppression of symptoms and adverse health effects is good enough.

 

[sydney]

Lol. The problem is that people like you think no one should have had a vaccination, there shouldn't have been any lockdowns and masks were a waste of time and didn't stop anything.

no i don't you plank ....there should be a choice , there was and is not any reason why perfectly fit and healthy 15 - 40 year olds should be forced to have a minimum of 2 jabs to carry on an anywhere near normal life , i've had 3 because i wanted to travel , thousands of nurses , police , teachers and firefighters quit their jobs rather than be forced to have jabs , 11,000 US military personnel quit over the mandates which have now been rescinded but there is no move to re install those that quit , you wanna be controlled and dictated to then fill yer boots but don't force it on perfectly fit and healthy young people who are more than likely just as well off without it ....you wanna trust pfizer with their track record you crack on mate.

lockdowns caused a lot of damage , if you wanna wear a mask then wear one but once again don't force fit , healthy people to do so.

 

[sydney]

i cant understand why there is any discussion about vaccines. the west had programmes of vaccination, got broadly immune* and moved on last year. China did not vaccinate, tried lockdowns, failed and only now openning up while having hundreds of thousands of cases and unknown death rate (literally, their official data is non-existent). we've conducted a world scale experiment on the benefits of vaccination and found they work really well. see also every other vaccination programme over the past 50 years.

*accepting there was not actually full 100% immunity, suppression of symptoms and adverse health effects is good enough.

60 ,000 deaths apparently in the last 3 months. China is a very odd , f***ed up, place.

 

[sydney]

Pretty obvious why the NHS is struggling, too many people in this country now , the population has increased by 10 million people in the last decade, all these new houses being built , and how many new hospitals or doctors surgeries are there ,
too many people not contributing in this country , over 2 million people not working on so called sick benefits,
plus all the other people who don’t contribute and don’t pay for it ,
this is why it is struggling

perilously close to the truth mate but be careful , you may well about to be lambasted for your views.

 

[Flagship]

It's funny when people slag off the covid vaccine and then tell us they've had three of them. Not so brave is it?

 

[:J)]

Keir Starmer has said Labour is prepared to reform the NHS to prevent it dying, as he said the current system of GP visits “isn’t working”.
The Labour leader said his party was going to tackle “bureaucratic nonsense” in the NHS and argued people should be able to self-refer themselves to a physio for back pain or to order a test for “internal bleeding” rather than having to see a GP.
Starmer set out his views on the health service in interviews with the BBC and the Sunday Telegraph, saying: “If we don’t get real about reform, the NHS will die.”

Least he has the balls to say it

This is incredibly dense from Starmer. There's a reason why the triage system exists in GP surgeries and hospitals, and his stupid idea would create more problems than it solves.

 

[drew]

no i don't you plank ....there should be a choice , there was and is not any reason why perfectly fit and healthy 15 - 40 year olds should be forced to have a minimum of 2 jabs to carry on an anywhere near normal life , i've had 3 because i wanted to travel , thousands of nurses , police , teachers and firefighters quit their jobs rather than be forced to have jabs , 11,000 US military personnel quit over the mandates which have now been rescinded but there is no move to re install those that quit , you wanna be controlled and dictated to then fill yer boots but don't force it on perfectly fit and healthy young people who are more than likely just as well off without it ....you wanna trust pfizer with their track record you crack on mate.

lockdowns caused a lot of damage , if you wanna wear a mask then wear one but once again don't force fit , healthy people to do so.

And what would have happened without lockdowns. Where I agree with some is that they were late and not enforced. As for masks, it's about not spreading the virus rather than preventing you catching. I assume you were aware of that. If not, perhaps next time you have surgery, tell the hospital staff not to bother with masks.

 

[drew]

Pretty obvious why the NHS is struggling, too many people in this country now , the population has increased by 10 million people in the last decade, all these new houses being built , and how many new hospitals or doctors surgeries are there ,
too many people not contributing in this country , over 2 million people not working on so called sick benefits,
plus all the other people who don’t contribute and don’t pay for it ,
this is why it is struggling

Where the hell do you get your statistics? Population of the Uk is 67m and was 57m around the mid 90s. That's getting on for 30 years to grow 10m, not the last decade. Finally, great idea, let those that are sick and can't work not get the treatment they need. The right wing are well and truly alive in this country at the moment.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is incredibly dense from Starmer. There's a reason why the triage system exists in GP surgeries and hospitals, and his stupid idea would create more problems than it solves.

the internal bleed wasnt great choice (you wouldnt know!), the other examples are valid. if i know roughly what ailment i have, i still have to go to the GP. other options are unavailable, say going to a specialist or just getting a prescription from the pharmacist for a regular treatment. or get blood/urine tests, to be sent off before GP can give any diagnosis. how many GP appointments that wasted through routine that dont need triage? they can focus on those with unclear conditions.