How do you judge quality of life? There’s people I know who lead dull lives…..not sure I want them exterminated though.I don't think that your quality of life care argument is controversial.
How do you judge quality of life? There’s people I know who lead dull lives…..not sure I want them exterminated though.I don't think that your quality of life care argument is controversial.
Lost my brother in law last year to bowel cancer. He never responded to the regular screening requests he got. Aside from the human cost of the illness, the cost of screening relative to the treatment required is miniscule.I know this is controversial but I can't understand why we spend so much money keeping people, young and old, alive when they have no quality of life. One little injection in the right circumstances would save billions.
Also I dont get it that people get free prescriptions at 60 when they are still working. People should pay for their prescriptions unless they are on benefits.
I also get fed up with getting letters from my doctor inviting me in for screening for things I have little chance of having. I'd rather they treat the sick and save money for those in urgent need.
screening things, they must pick out a lot of things? Maybe, I've never actually gone to one as I'd be taking up time for someone who 'should' be having one! It's constant circles.
This. The more cost effective approach is to be checked regularly. I get vouchers every year over here to be checked for numerous things.Lost my brother in law last year to bowel cancer. He never responded to the regular screening requests he got. Aside from the human cost of the illness, the cost of screening relative to the treatment required is miniscule.
You are mixing me up with another poster. I didn't say that.The point I tried to make when I first posted on this thread was that (as far as I can tell) the same problems with the NHS have been happening throughout every Government I can remember- NHS in crisis, underfunded…as far back as Callaghan.
When you replied that NHS satisfaction was at “the highest ever” at the end of the most recent Labour Government I checked it as it seemed unlikely. From 1948 until 2010 ?? As I said the ratings only date back to 1983 , 2010 was indeed the highest satisfaction rating since 1983. I jumped on it because it seemed like a rash statement and an unlikely one. We are similar as you yourself asked source please. However that is all a bit of a distraction to be honest
My view on the NHS is that the current model needs changing and no amount of money will make it efficient as it stands.
Sir Keir Starmer’s current view:
The Labour leader said: “A number of people do go as NHS patients to the private sector, our research shows that that’s been under-used and we could do more of it and that would clear 230,000 people off the waiting list every year.”
Although he added: “But let me be clear, we are not talking about privatising the NHS, we are talking about using the private sector effectively and free at the point of use as an absolutely governing principle as we go into this review but we do need change and reform.
I agree with this sentiment, although I’m not sure a great many dyed in the wool Labour voters will.
I think the way forward would be for the PM Chancellor and Health Secretary to meet with The opposition Leader, Shadow Chancellor and Shadow Health Secretary and develop, finance and implement Sir Keir’s plan.
I won’t hold my breath
Unfortunately out of hours GP care from your own GP went when they were given a new improved contracts by the Blair government.Has anyone here used the 111 service or the online thing? I'd have gone to A&E 20 times for myself or family members if I took their response seriously. When I really did need to speak to someone on Xmas Day as I didn't want to call an ambulance but did actually want to speak to a Dr to put my mind at rest, I gave up after an hour on hold listening to their shite music. I didn't want to call an ambulance as I knew they'd be bloody busy & I was lucky/unlucky enough to have a good idea what was happening. What happened to the times when I could just ring the out of hours GP give an explanation of what had happened and they'd give me sensible advice. If I had eventually got through to 111, I'd have spoken to someone who reads off the sheet & if the answers don't correspond to the sheet, they either get a Dr to call you back or tell you to call an ambulance. It nearly always ends in call an ambulance or make an appt with your GP. The only time when 111 was any help was when jnr had an infected blister and I couldn't get through to my GP, 111 trusted my judgement and sent through a prescription for anti-biotic cream.
I had to trust my judgement on Xmas Day but if I had got it wrong, I would be asking some serious questions as to why I was on hold for an hour to 111 before I gave up. I knew they'd tell me to call an ambulance which would've taken at least another hour & if my judgement call was wrong it could've been very serious. I do have a bit of medical knowledge so I wasn't just guessing.
No idea how to fix it but when it's so disjointed that you have people turning up at A&E for something silly that a GP could easily deal with if you can get an appointment & on the other side people like me who wont call an ambulance just in case someone is having a heart attack and they need it more, or dismisses minor things for GP appointments (as they're so hard to come by) which end up being a major problem as we're almost being told 'not to bother' the GP. It's all a bit f**ked & the 111 service is bloody useless, no disrespect to the poor sods that have to answer the phone,
I agree with this.Has anyone here used the 111 service or the online thing? I'd have gone to A&E 20 times for myself or family members if I took their response seriously. When I really did need to speak to someone on Xmas Day as I didn't want to call an ambulance but did actually want to speak to a Dr to put my mind at rest, I gave up after an hour on hold listening to their shite music. I didn't want to call an ambulance as I knew they'd be bloody busy & I was lucky/unlucky enough to have a good idea what was happening. What happened to the times when I could just ring the out of hours GP give an explanation of what had happened and they'd give me sensible advice. If I had eventually got through to 111, I'd have spoken to someone who reads off the sheet & if the answers don't correspond to the sheet, they either get a Dr to call you back or tell you to call an ambulance. It nearly always ends in call an ambulance or make an appt with your GP. The only time when 111 was any help was when jnr had an infected blister and I couldn't get through to my GP, 111 trusted my judgement and sent through a prescription for anti-biotic cream.
I had to trust my judgement on Xmas Day but if I had got it wrong, I would be asking some serious questions as to why I was on hold for an hour to 111 before I gave up. I knew they'd tell me to call an ambulance which would've taken at least another hour & if my judgement call was wrong it could've been very serious. I do have a bit of medical knowledge so I wasn't just guessing.
No idea how to fix it but when it's so disjointed that you have people turning up at A&E for something silly that a GP could easily deal with if you can get an appointment & on the other side people like me who wont call an ambulance just in case someone is having a heart attack and they need it more, or dismisses minor things for GP appointments (as they're so hard to come by) which end up being a major problem as we're almost being told 'not to bother' the GP. It's all a bit f**ked & the 111 service is bloody useless, no disrespect to the poor sods that have to answer the phone,
Precisely. Gates at Selhurst would drop dramatically for exampleHow do you judge quality of life? There’s people I know who lead dull lives…..not sure I want them exterminated though.
Simplistic bollocks.The answer to the OP's question is never ever let the Conservative Party loose with the NHS again.
It will take generations now to fix what they have done
Liars, charlatans, crooks, avaricious, uncaring bastards the lot of them
When you underfund a health system this is what you get...
Extra deaths in 2022 close to highest level in 70 years - how much are NHS failings to blame?
Over a thousand more people are dying every week than expected, and many of these extra deaths are happening at home. Are NHS delays the problem? Or is it the long tail of the COVID pandemic? Sky News breaks down the numbers - and how they compare to what's happening in other countries.news.sky.com
Yeah, with a decade plus of underfunding in the bag, maybe we should have gone for more Covid deaths to ease the current situation.Well that and when you actively encourage people to stay away for almost 2 years, cancel some treatment and some GPs refused to see anyone.
Some people are going to A&E because of the difficulties in getting to see a GP.I see that a "only call 999 if you really have to" request has gone out for Wednesdays strike. nothing wrong in that, however surely you should only be calling 999 when you really have to anyway?
Part of the problem is the number of people using A&E , calling Ambulances as a first point of contact with the NHS rather than as an emergency.
Its the same with Drs surgeries, how many people go to the Dr when a quick visit to a pharmacy for advice would sufice?
Obviously the problems run much deeper than simple misuse of the various parts of the NHS, but last time I visited A&E there were posters all over indicating that well over a third (it may have been two thirds) of people should be elsewhere. Imagine your local A&E with a third less patients, the freeing up of staff time would be enourmous, or your Drs surgery with I assume similar numbers. Of course it wouldn't solve the crisis in the NHS, but it would certainly relieve the pressure
Some good points on here that I won’t repeat; just to say I’m general that the free at point of entry model no longer works, and politicians of all colours should be hones and say so. It has never been case for dentistry or opticians.
I have two sons in NHS, one a haematology consultant, the other an A&E registrar. There are three things they believe would make a colossal difference:
1. Understanding and reacting to risk. A&E doctor says he could see twice as many patients per shift as he does currently if he had less work to do after seeing each patient, particularly if they are discharged. The ‘formalities’ are required to minimise the chance of a complaint/legal fight afterwards (like most A&E doctors he has suffered the problem of complaint after sending someone home who later died; they would have done anyway but never mind). His view is simply that if either it is just accepted that mistakes do occasionally happen or that patients/relatives actually sign a waiver to this effect, then the far bigger risk of patients waiting hours would be much reduced;
2, Use of technology. The process of keeping patient notes is painstakingly 1970s, for example. One of them spent an hour trying to get something printed at weekend because there are no IT personnel available then (the printer needed ink!). Far more can be done via video conferencing; a very simple change would be to record patient notes and download them as audio files end of shift. Think about the comparison with the commercial world where productivity is so important and generally improved with technological solutions;
3. Our perception of NHS as our servant that is always there however small our need. All I need to say on this is A&E doctors quote that he liked the sessions when England were playing as less than half the usual number of people came in. Funny how emergencies reduce when there is something good on telly. We must take some responsibility too: responsibility to look ourselves better; responsibility to seek help elsewhere sometimes (we had a case near us when a woman complained that it took 7 hours for ambulance to arrive. All she needed was help getting up, and admitted later she could have asked her son instead); responsibility to others whose needs maybe greater.
I am pleased to see this has not developed into a political thread; bar one or two outliers we have not the ‘get rid of Tories and all will be alright’ posts. It won’t because the system is not fit for purpose any longer and pretending a change of government will change everything is delusional. My sons are not Conservative supporters but are saying the same thing.
Yeah, with a decade plus of underfunding in the bag, maybe we should have gone for more Covid deaths to ease the current situation.
Controversial !
A former neighbour of mine was admitted to hospital at Christmas. Apparently she weighs around 35 stone, which equates to 222 kilos. She doesn't get out of bed. It took 3 ambulances and 2 fire engines, one with a platform, to get her out of her property. This involved removing a 1st floor window. Within less than a week, the fire engines and ambulances got her back into her property via the bedroom window. Presumably, because of the pressure on hospital beds, she was discharged too early. Yesterday evening, she was readmitted to hospital. This process involved 3 ambulances, 2 fire engines, a platform, the removal of her window, and I suspect that the road was closed off again. Only god knows how many personnel have been involved so far in the ongoing removal / reinstatement processes.
How much is this costing and who foots the bill ? Is there a financial cut off point, or does this go on until the NHS is bled dry ? I appreciate that the NHS strives to do everything to enable the individual to stay in their own home, but surely this is unsustainable. Shouldn't she be encouraged to sell her property, and use the proceeds from the sale to fund her nursing ho
me fees ?
What has her size got to with anything? Sum ppl increase size e.g. due to water retention. How many ppl need all that stuff to go into Hospital anyway. Its isolated and if you went through with your plan its peanuts the NHS saves.Controversial !
A former neighbour of mine was admitted to hospital at Christmas. Apparently she weighs around 35 stone, which equates to 222 kilos. She doesn't get out of bed. It took 3 ambulances and 2 fire engines, one with a platform, to get her out of her property. This involved removing a 1st floor window. Within less than a week, the fire engines and ambulances got her back into her property via the bedroom window. Presumably, because of the pressure on hospital beds, she was discharged too early. Yesterday evening, she was readmitted to hospital. This process involved 3 ambulances, 2 fire engines, a platform, the removal of her window, and I suspect that the road was closed off again. Only god knows how many personnel have been involved so far in the ongoing removal / reinstatement processes.
How much is this costing and who foots the bill ? Is there a financial cut off point, or does this go on until the NHS is bled dry ? I appreciate that the NHS strives to do everything to enable the individual to stay in their own home, but surely this is unsustainable. Shouldn't she be encouraged to sell her property, and use the proceeds from the sale to fund her nursing home fees ?
Well I have one member of one family has died in the past 12 months because the NHS was overloaded and another on my brothers side of the family just before Christmas, without going into detail they were negligent simply due to lack of resources.Because there was no other way around it? If only there was a test someone could take.
Like it or not, shutting down the NHS mostly is one of the reason there is a mess now.
Deaths at home was high during that 2 years as well, just no one reported it.
rapidly ageing population , lots of very un fit people around with nasty habits , a lot of idiots about , drug users and mental health patients are the things that are severely hampering health systems in the western world.Some good points on here that I won’t repeat; just to say I’m general that the free at point of entry model no longer works, and politicians of all colours should be hones and say so. It has never been case for dentistry or opticians.
I have two sons in NHS, one a haematology consultant, the other an A&E registrar. There are three things they believe would make a colossal difference:
1. Understanding and reacting to risk. A&E doctor says he could see twice as many patients per shift as he does currently if he had less work to do after seeing each patient, particularly if they are discharged. The ‘formalities’ are required to minimise the chance of a complaint/legal fight afterwards (like most A&E doctors he has suffered the problem of complaint after sending someone home who later died; they would have done anyway but never mind). His view is simply that if either it is just accepted that mistakes do occasionally happen or that patients/relatives actually sign a waiver to this effect, then the far bigger risk of patients waiting hours would be much reduced;
2, Use of technology. The process of keeping patient notes is painstakingly 1970s, for example. One of them spent an hour trying to get something printed at weekend because there are no IT personnel available then (the printer needed ink!). Far more can be done via video conferencing; a very simple change would be to record patient notes and download them as audio files end of shift. Think about the comparison with the commercial world where productivity is so important and generally improved with technological solutions;
3. Our perception of NHS as our servant that is always there however small our need. All I need to say on this is A&E doctors quote that he liked the sessions when England were playing as less than half the usual number of people came in. Funny how emergencies reduce when there is something good on telly. We must take some responsibility too: responsibility to look ourselves better; responsibility to seek help elsewhere sometimes (we had a case near us when a woman complained that it took 7 hours for ambulance to arrive. All she needed was help getting up, and admitted later she could have asked her son instead); responsibility to others whose needs maybe greater.
I am pleased to see this has not developed into a political thread; bar one or two outliers we have not the ‘get rid of Tories and all will be alright’ posts. It won’t because the system is not fit for purpose any longer and pretending a change of government will change everything is delusional. My sons are not Conservative supporters but are saying the same thing.