Horrific

[eastlondonseagull]

The bloke killed was good mates with an Albion fan on here - so please don't let this descend into a Binfest.

.

 

[User removed 4]

You can be alright sometimes Bushy but, my god you are a f***ing moron.

Im serious, im not trying to argue for the sake of it, how do you measure people that were deterred, or cant you answer it, so you decided to use the abuse tactic.

 

[Scampi]

absolute rubbish, read my post, i said from the turn of the last century, you just cant admit that the permissive society as advocated by the likes of roy jenkins has failed, and you and others with so called liberal views are wrong.

If you look at the figures then yes you are right, reported crimes per thousand of population increased hugely from the mid 50's to the mid 90's.

There are some points that undermine your argument.

Firstly crime has been in decline for the last 10 - 15 years.
Second this is reported crime. There is good evidence that many sections of society in the early half of the century didn't report crime. In a way they dealt with things outside the criminal justice system.
Third the advent of hard drugs has had a twofold effect, whereby there are new crimes (eg possession and dealing) which skew the figures and addicts themselves commit huge numbers of crimes, both of which I'd argue are nothing to do with a liberal society.

Fourth as society has become wealthier and more technologically advanced there are more opportunites for property crime. Just think about mobile phones and cars.

As to your solutions there is conflicting evidence as to the efficacy of a "strict" law and justice regime.

 

[User removed 4]

If you look at the figures then yes you are right, reported crimes per thousand of population increased hugely from the mid 50's to the mid 90's.

There are some points that undermine your argument.

Firstly crime has been in decline for the last 10 - 15 years.
Second this is reported crime. There is good evidence that many sections of society in the early half of the century didn't report crime. In a way they dealt with things outside the criminal justice system.
Third the advent of hard drugs has had a twofold effect, whereby there are new crimes (eg possession and dealing) which skew the figures and addicts themselves commit huge numbers of crimes, both of which I'd argue are nothing to do with a liberal society.

Fourth as society has become wealthier and more technologically advanced there are more opportunites for property crime. Just think about mobile phones and cars.

As to your solutions there is conflicting evidence as to the efficacy of a "strict" law and justice regime.

Fair enough post, but i'd argue strongly that violent crime has increased a lot in the last 10-15 years.

 

[Nibble]

Im serious, im not trying to argue for the sake of it, how do you measure people that were deterred, or cant you answer it, so you decided to use the abuse tactic.

Okay Bushy, let me explain this to you in terms that you might understand. There are no figures in existence as it is an unquantifiable concept. However, what we do know is that the phsycological link between crime and punishment and crime and empathy is rarely made by the criminal.

Ther eis no argument on earth that will move you from your 60 yr old cabbie approach to what yuo see as this countries problems. Hang 'em all. Kill them all.

 

[Simster]

This argument about the USA is regularly used, I'd like to know how you measure the number of people that WERE deterred by the death penalty ?

You haven't answered his question.

The FACT is that violent crime levels in the US are far higher than they are in other Western nations, despite the sort of hang 'em/lock 'em up punishments they have. As for the levels of violence in this country, does anyone have any definitive stats on these levels through the decades? I'd genuinely like to know.

And as for this issue, it's a monstrous crime, but similar things occur every Saturday night. I remember an incident on a night out in Blackpool two years ago when 4 blokes kicked the crap out of a bloke walking the opposite direction, because he jokingly snatched a supermarket bag out of his hands. It was horrifying, not just because I remember 2 of them kicking him in the head in the middle of the road thinking they could be up for a murder charge.

Needless to say, they were all paralytic - and this is something I struggle to believe is caused by a breakdown in society in the past 20 years or whatever.

 

[User removed 4]

Okay Bushy, let me explain this to you in terms that you might understand. There are no figures in existence as it is an unquantifiable concept. However, what we do know is that the phsycological link between crime and punishment and crime and empathy is rarely made by the criminal.

Ther eis no argument on earth that will move you from your 60 yr old cabbie approach to what yuo see as this countries problems. Hang 'em all. Kill them all.

I dont believe it is unquantifiable, just that nobody had made a serious scientific study, there are all sorts of variables that spring to mind, as for 60 year old cabbies, does it never occur to you and snobs like you that that they might hold certain views because they have a little bit more experience of life and its low points than a film extra who supplements his income by office cleaning ?

 

[User removed 4]

You haven't answered his question.

The FACT is that violent crime levels in the US are far higher than they are in other Western nations, despite the sort of hang 'em/lock 'em up punishments they have. As for the levels of violence in this country, does anyone have any definitive stats on these levels through the decades? I'd genuinely like to know.

And as for this issue, it's a monstrous crime, but similar things occur every Saturday night. I remember an incident on a night out in Blackpool two years ago when 4 blokes kicked the crap out of a bloke walking the opposite direction, because he jokingly snatched a supermarket bag out of his hands. It was horrifying, not just because I remember 2 of them kicking him in the head in the middle of the road thinking they could be up for a murder charge.

Needless to say, they were all paralytic - and this is something I struggle to believe is caused by a breakdown in society in the past 20 years or whatever.

I'd argue that the US has a far more extreme have and have not scenario than other western nations which is a probable cause , and yes , crimes like this do occur every saturday night, but id also argue with a lot more frequency than in the past, as for what happened in blackpool, you were on a night out which suggests there were more than one of you , did you not feel under pressure at all to help the poor sod out ??

 

[aviaviavioioioi]

Killing someone over a hat!! i hope they get done. its always five or six people on one person these people are such cowards.

In Brighton a few weeks ago two young students were attacked for no reason they were held down while the scumbags smashed glass bottles in there face. One required reconstructive facial surgery. This was in West Street. The police are still looking for the Evil scumbags.

 

[Nibble]

I dont believe it is unquantifiable, just that nobody had made a serious scientific study, there are all sorts of variables that spring to mind, as for 60 year old cabbies, does it never occur to you and snobs like you that that they might hold certain views because they have a little bit more experience of life and its low points than a film extra who supplements his income by office cleaning ?

Oh I'm no snob. I tolerate poor people I just don't like to place myself near them. They smell and talk piffle.

 

[User removed 4]

Oh I'm no snob. I tolerate poor people I just don't like to place myself near them. They smell and talk piffle.

Of course you tolerate poor people , you are poor
,but still a snob.

 

[Nibble]

Of course you tolerate poor people , you are poor
,but still a snob.

Ah, so as well as knowing the answer to the worlds problems you now claim to know other people's incomes?

If being a snob means disregarding the bigoted, shortsighted drivel that comes out of the mouths of the likes of you then I am happy to be a snob.

 

[User removed 4]

Ah, so as well as knowing the answer to the worlds problems you now claim to know other people's incomes?

If being a snob means disregarding the bigoted, shortsighted drivel that comes out of the mouths of the likes of you then I am happy to be a snob.

I havent a clue what your income is , but i know that you wouldnt be doing a cleaning job to supplement your money from being an extra if you werent poor

 

[Dr Bandler]

USA

Actually, if you look at the graph, violent crime in the USA is declining (while still being high by European standards).

The evidence from New York (now being followed by other Cities) is that zero tolerance policing and punishment has an effect on reducing all crime. A fact that is often overlooked, though, is this goes hand in hand with offered rehabilitation for offenders like drug users. I fear we do not have any of the following in this country: effective policing, punishment or rehab.

The make-up of society and the violence is different too. As most who have spent time in the US may have observed, if you stay in middle class areas you feel generally safe, while our town centres and many estates have becoming places of, at the least, low level disorder on a regular basis. That is why it is eating at the fabric of our well-being.

 

[Nibble]

I havent a clue what your income is , but i know that you wouldnt be doing a cleaning job to supplement your money from being an extra if you werent poor

If you were half as knowledgable as you claim you would be aware that I haven't done that for years and I'm not an extra. I think you know that but are so thick you cannot come up with any new insult so just recycle the joke that was going around about 2 years ago, no longer has relevance and doesn't really wind me up, it not being true and all.

Oh Bushy, Bushy, Bushy. All this just confirms my already low opinion of you. I suggest you get an education before you mix it with people who know what they are talking about.

tata

 

[User removed 4]

If you were half as knowledgable as you claim you would be aware that I haven't done that for years and I'm not an extra. I think you know that but are so thick you cannot come up with any new insult so just recycle the joke that was going around about 2 years ago, no longer has relevance and doesn't really wind me up, it not being true and all.

Oh Bushy, Bushy, Bushy. All this just confirms my already low opinion of you. I suggest you get an education before you mix it with people who know what they are talking about.

tata

Not an extra anymore, what , have you made the step up to bit parts then ??get an education ? at least my parents didnt send me away to school because they didnt love me, as you've admitted on here before





PS I love you really !

 

[Nibble]

Not an extra anymore, what , have you made the step up to bit parts then ??get an education ? at least my parents didnt send me away to school because they didnt love me, as you've admitted on here before





PS I love you really !

Never been an extra in my life.
Now you're just making shit up. I said I went to boarding school I believe it was you who added your own parental disownership twist.

You love me? I'm beginning to dislike you. A lot.
Now please excuse me. I have some videos to return

 

[User removed 4]

Now please excuse me. I have some videos to return

bet you're not in any of them

 

[Nibble]

bet you're not in any of them

How much would you like to bet? I have five DVDs in my hand, shall we say you give me a tenner for each one I'm in?

 

[User removed 4]

How much would you like to bet? I have five DVDs in my hand, shall we say you give me a tenner for each one I'm in?

yep, tell me what dvds and your name. bit narcissistic though isnt it? getting out 5 dvds all with yourself in ?