[Politics] Home secretary: 'Knife crime can't go on'

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Jordan Peterson, the psychologist, says that the data show that the probability of being caught is more important than the potential length of sentence when it comes to deterring crime. I know the conclusion is obvious to most here - more police on the streets and stop and search. It is odd that some people worry more about the risk of this being abused by a small number of officers than the carnage currently occurring on our streets.

Swamp 81.

It doesn't work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Brixton_riot

 

[BLOCK F]

Wrong again.

Just 4 of the current 10 latest.

View attachment 105285

Stay on topic old chap.

Good Morning NM.
I was referring to the 'knife' thread.
As much as I am a fan of yours, I don't feel the need to trawl through numerous threads to search out your pearls of wisdom!
Anyway, have a lovely day; I think we have just about exhausted this game of ping-pong, have we not?

 

[darkwolf666]

Stop and search achieves little. Longer sentencing is too late. More police: you'd need a few walking down every street all day long, which isn't going to happen apart from in a Judge Dredd film.
Society must attempt to get back to stable and supportive home lives. Most people have this in some way or another. But some don't and need the help to get it.

Sorry, we have gone back to the latch key kid generation, where now it is almost impossible to keep a roof over your family's head without both adults (if there are two) working full time, creating that environment where the kids who could do with the most support are instead allowed to run feral...

 

[Dr Bandler]

Swamp 81.

It doesn't work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Brixton_riot

Hi Harry, I am not sure that the specific circumstances leading up to the Brixton riots prove that it doesn't work. "Zero Tolerance" and "Broken Window" policing in New York proved that effective, on the ground policing can reduce crime. It has to be accompanied by scrupulously fair policing though, with no corruption or abuse - Guiliani realised that and made sure that was the case.

Of course there are more aspects to curing this than just policing, but it is an important part. I am not sure how we address the utter delinquency and criminality in some areas of society. Of course we can say that poor role models and lack of parenting are causes, but how do we begin to rectify that?

As for the lack of police numbers / action, I was reading that the residents of the leafy London suburb of Chislehurst are thinking of hiring private security guards to patrol, as the area has become a target for burglary gangs. These gangs have become ever more daring and violent as they are never caught. I am not sure most of us professional / middle class types realise most of the time just how thin policing has become.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

Swamp 81.

It doesn't work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Brixton_riot

"SUS" laws in the 80's were abused by a police force that was inherently racist, and was used to target black communities. Stop/search and 'zero tolerance' approaches worked well in New York and Glasgow, and transformed them into much safer places. The policies themselves are not based on targeting race but if you have large groups of black youths, in predominantly black communities using knives as a status pathway, then it is going to be difficult to implement any targeted policy without being painted racist. Not saying there are not the same problems within disaffected white communities but would S&S policies have to be viewed/implemented differently because of perceived racial profiling? What is more important, saving lives or diversity & inclusion PR?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A great interview and a great deal of commonsense.

 

[Dr Bandler]

A great interview and a great deal of commonsense.

Quite good and thoughtful analysis, but no real answers. He also said that he is not in a position to condemn those who stab others. Welcome to relative amorality - cant agree with this.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

Jordan Peterson, the psychologist, says that the data show that the probability of being caught is more important than the potential length of sentence when it comes to deterring crime. I know the conclusion is obvious to most here - more police on the streets and stop and search. It is odd that some people worry more about the risk of this being abused by a small number of officers than the carnage currently occurring on our streets.

Jorden Peterson has some great insights into the plight of disaffected youth and youth crime. He gets a lot of stick from far left and far right, which tells me he is probably onto something.

Here is a snippet of JP taking about knife crime, he also mentions probability of punishment being more effective than severity of punishment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znpSoDyp9Eg

 

[Spicy]

So you ask it to stop being a political football....

By kicking the football.

Yep but I scored with my kick.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hi Harry, I am not sure that the specific circumstances leading up to the Brixton riots prove that it doesn't work. "Zero Tolerance" and "Broken Window" policing in New York proved that effective, on the ground policing can reduce crime. It has to be accompanied by scrupulously fair policing though, with no corruption or abuse - Guiliani realised that and made sure that was the case.

Of course there are more aspects to curing this than just policing, but it is an important part. I am not sure how we address the utter delinquency and criminality in some areas of society. Of course we can say that poor role models and lack of parenting are causes, but how do we begin to rectify that?

As for the lack of police numbers / action, I was reading that the residents of the leafy London suburb of Chislehurst are thinking of hiring private security guards to patrol, as the area has become a target for burglary gangs. These gangs have become ever more daring and violent as they are never caught. I am not sure most of us professional / middle class types realise most of the time just how thin policing has become.

Evening DB. Yes, all fair comment. There is certainly a sense that things are not what they should be here in the UK. There are possible responses including increasing policing, changing its nature, being more rigorous etc, as you say. Spending money that we don't have. Allegedly. Also the people who have commented on families, upbringinging and inclusion also have a point (I guess the latter was my point). We certainly know how to do things badly now, yet have learned a lot from the past (I hope). Right now though the bottom line is it seems like the government have been underfunding this, and at the same time puffing a load of old BS about law and order....although frankly not even that in recent times. Brexit is the only game in town. All the best.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"SUS" laws in the 80's were abused by a police force that was inherently racist, and was used to target black communities. Stop/search and 'zero tolerance' approaches worked well in New York and Glasgow, and transformed them into much safer places. The policies themselves are not based on targeting race but if you have large groups of black youths, in predominantly black communities using knives as a status pathway, then it is going to be difficult to implement any targeted policy without being painted racist. Not saying there are not the same problems within disaffected white communities but would S&S policies have to be viewed/implemented differently because of perceived racial profiling? What is more important, saving lives or diversity & inclusion PR?

Yes, good points that resonate with DB's post, acknowledged by my reply above.

 

[Stat Brother]

[tweet]1103564407551021056[/tweet]

 

[AmexRuislip]

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/hillingdon-station-stabbing-everything-know-16976291

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/gallery/crime-scene-photos-ealing-stabbing-16976459

FFS too close to home, it's getting out of order

 

[AmexRuislip]

See this [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50335862

 

[Guinness Boy]

See this [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50335862

Jesus. Very sad, slightly scary, but not surprising. RIP.

I have been seconded on to sites in Lancs and Scotland and both are in very nice areas. I've not been to "Jaywick" in ages. Back there next week though. Hopefully get you a coffee. Bring a stab vest

 

[portlock seagull]

It’s is scary but typically it’s yoof on yoof so most of us on here are safe!

 

[portlock seagull]

[tweet]1103564407551021056[/tweet]

It was a lot higher than 10, where’s he got that from?

 

[vegster]

I bought a cheap Tenon saw in The Range today and it had the sticker Challenge 25 on it, like a 24 year old would take a Tenon saw to a murder attempt ? surely we are missing the point ?

 

[AmexRuislip]

It’s is scary but typically it’s yoof on yoof so most of us on here are safe!

We're on this email alert for our area, for any crimes that occur.

 

[beorhthelm]

I bought a cheap Tenon saw in The Range today and it had the sticker Challenge 25 on it, like a 24 year old would take a Tenon saw to a murder attempt ? surely we are missing the point ?

the cry from the public "something must be done" is heard and something is done, however pointless.