Hillsborough the search for the truth

[Dave the OAP]

I remember the visit we had down to portsmouth I think it was the next season to Hillsborough....we were all expeced to come down the front of the terrace and climb up the small steps on to teh track around the pitch....there was a serious crush and a few people were left traumatised after that.

I spoke to a police officer at teh ground basically asking who made the rediculous decision to adopt this policy and who was in charge....he took my name and sure enough, a week later, I was visited by a local officer who took a statement from me explaining what had gone on.

I have never to this day heard any more of that and I assume it just went into a file labelled " whinging football fans".

There were people in serious trouble down the front with people crying and trying to breathe...it was a horrible episode.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Looking at the footage of the Spurs fans at the 1981 semi-final I don't think Heyel can be blamed at all for Hillsborough. It was a disaster waiting to happen. The authorities knew that, and did nothing to prevent it. It just happened to be Liverpool there that day. It could've been ANY club on any other day.

As M20gull said, hooliganism in general made football fans 2nd class citizens that the authorities treated like animals. Heysel was so fresh in the memory back then, it gave the authorities an avenue of blame, after an almighty f*** up. The fact that it was ok to blame the fans in most peoples eyes at the time, was due to prejudice against football fans. Hooliganism and Heysel were factors that gave the authorities and especially the police, a believable Lie.

Liverpool Fans were not to blame. End of.

But every single hooligan in the 20 years previous played a part in changing the publics opinion of football fans into that of drunken hooligans. This is an undeniable factor. It has taken another 20years since Hillsborough, for that prejudice to fade away.

 

[Paddy B]

Some interesting alternative views and comments on these blogs:
Liverpool Expects This Day Sick Justice!
Ambush Predator: s The New Black!

They are not "interesting" they are ill informed and written with open prejudice. I would pay them no attention

 

[Captain Sensible]

I remember the visit we had down to portsmouth I think it was the next season to Hillsborough....we were all expeced to come down the front of the terrace and climb up the small steps on to teh track around the pitch....there was a serious crush and a few people were left traumatised after that.

I spoke to a police officer at teh ground basically asking who made the rediculous decision to adopt this policy and who was in charge....he took my name and sure enough, a week later, I was visited by a local officer who took a statement from me explaining what had gone on.

I have never to this day heard any more of that and I assume it just went into a file labelled " whinging football fans".

There were people in serious trouble down the front with people crying and trying to breathe...it was a horrible episode.

I remember that. It was terrifying. They opened one tiny gate onto the pitch side and 2000 of us had to be crushed through the gate. My feet weren't touching the ground, then I had to get under a bar, my mate helped me under the bar and I helped him. It could easily have developed into a serious disaster.

 

[mac04]

One question that keeps popping in to my head on all this, is would this tragedy have happened if it had been Forest fans in that side of the ground and not Liverpool? Or indeed if Brighton had played Forest that day instead?

A lot of what people had been saying (and the Sun alluded to) was that it was the Liverpool fans fault, but was that because they were Liverpool fans and they are different to other sets of fans? This is what the lady in the blog seems very sure about, but if there were the same number of xxxx teams fans there that day surely the same problem would have occurred? Even taking into account that there may have been drunk Liverpool fans at the game who from the report didnt cause the tragedy, but may not have helped the situation - surely again every team has a minority of fans who would have acted in the same way?

I have always thought of this tragedy in terms of it could have happened to me or one of my football supporting family, should we have been at the wrong ground at the wrong time, which is why when people say "it is nothing to do with us" on the other thread about Friday night I don't necessarily agree completely as I think it is to do with all football fans (Although I dont believe we should do anything on the night)

I have thought the same thing many times. I was living in Nottingham at the time and had been to a few matches at the City Ground. I was in the Forest end at Hillsborough. The complete exoneration of the Liverpool fans must be welcomed, and it does mean that it could so easily have been me if Forest had been allocated the Leppings Lane End. It's frightening.

It was easy to see from where I was that there was virtually no-one in the outside pens. I remarked at the time that there didn't seem to be many Liverpool fans at the other end. Little did I know that there were, but they were all crammed into the same bit. I can't see any reason for the pens to be there, and without them (in my opinion) there would probably not have been any deaths. Although we could see it unfold before our eyes, it didn't cross our minds that the people we could see on stretchers were actually dead.

I have not stood on a terrace since. Be very thankful that we have the Amex.

 

[The Large One]

He was completely wrong in that last sentence, that much is true. But his wider point on Liverpool still stands, IMO. Or are you advocating that anybody who took SYP's portrayal of events as reality should be hung, drawn and quartered? I don't think many laymen realised the extent of the cover up.

Not of the cover-up, no.

The police's ineptitude (and not the behaviour of the fans) as the main reason for the tragedy has been on public record for 23 years. Boris, for whatever reason, chose to ignore that.

 

[Simster]

Not of the cover-up, no.

The police's ineptitude (and not the behaviour of the fans) as the main reason for the tragedy has been on public record for 23 years. Boris, for whatever reason, chose to ignore that.

I don't agree with that. He was writing about the city of Liverpool, not Hillsborough. He held up Liverpool fans at Hillsborough as an example of scousers failing to take responsibility, and that is something Liverpool fans had not really been completely absolved of until now.

So I wouldn't say he ignored police incompetence at Hillsborough, it's just that it had nothing to do with his article on scousers.

 

[perseus]

I have thought the same thing many times. I was living in Nottingham at the time and had been to a few matches at the City Ground. I was in the Forest end at Hillsborough. The complete exoneration of the Liverpool fans must be welcomed, and it does mean that it could so easily have been me if Forest had been allocated the Leppings Lane End. It's frightening.

It was easy to see from where I was that there was virtually no-one in the outside pens. I remarked at the time that there didn't seem to be many Liverpool fans at the other end. Little did I know that there were, but they were all crammed into the same bit. I can't see any reason for the pens to be there, and without them (in my opinion) there would probably not have been any deaths. Although we could see it unfold before our eyes, it didn't cross our minds that the people we could see on stretchers were actually dead.

I have not stood on a terrace since. Be very thankful that we have the Amex.

It was unpleasantly crowded in the City ground on the wet day that the two Albion trains did not arrive. We could not see how any more fans could be crammed in the away section on that day.

The separate pens were safety inclusions The safety recommendations are not always sound in those days.

 

[mac04]

It was unpleasantly crowded in the City ground on the wet day that the two Albion trains did not arrive. We could not see how any more fans could be crammed in the away section on that day.

The separate pens were safety inclusions The safety recommendations are not always sound in those days.

If the match that you are talking about was in the late seventies, then I am sure that my dad was on one of the trains that didn't make it. I stood in both the home and away ends at the City Ground in the late 80's. The Trent End was always packed and uncomfortable. The away end was the most unpleasant experience I have ever had at an away ground, thanks to the very unfriendly Notts police force.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I remember that. It was terrifying. They opened one tiny gate onto the pitch side and 2000 of us had to be crushed through the gate. My feet weren't touching the ground, then I had to get under a bar, my mate helped me under the bar and I helped him. It could easily have developed into a serious disaster.

Perhaps it wasn't as serious but i recall similar problems at Peterborough in the cup the year it snowed i think. There were about six thousand (can't remember exactly) of us crammed in and i remember being pretty crushed and someone in front was lifted up, feet off the ground etc. Scary stuff.

 

[The Large One]

I don't agree with that. He was writing about the city of Liverpool, not Hillsborough. He held up Liverpool fans at Hillsborough as an example of scousers failing to take responsibility, and that is something Liverpool fans had not really been completely absolved of until now.

Taylor had absolved them of blame in 1989.

 

[Simster]

Perhaps it wasn't as serious but i recall similar problems at Peterborough in the cup the year it snowed i think. There were about six thousand (can't remember exactly) of us crammed in and i remember being pretty crushed and someone in front was lifted up, feet off the ground etc. Scary stuff.

Yep, 1986. The only time I've been genuinely scared at a football match. We took 6,000 up there which means we must have had over 5,000 on that terrace - a terrace which now has a safety certificate for 1,700 or so...

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Alot has been said about how fans were treated then as opposed to now and how things have changed. It was only last season i was at a lower league game around here where at half-time i went to buy a bottle of water and the top was taken off and kept behind at the bar,on asking why (although i had a good idea already) because i could use it as a misisle,some change.

 

[Falkor]

I volunteer at a lower league club and its surprising the amount of violence, alot of the old hard men now banned from clubs go to non league clubs for there kicks.

 

[Emily's Mum]

Quote: "I have always thought of this tragedy in terms of it could have happened to me or one of my football supporting family, should we have been at the wrong ground at the wrong time, which is why when people say "it is nothing to do with us" on the other thread about Friday night I don't necessarily agree completely as I think it is to do with all football fans (Although I dont believe we should do anything on the night)"

I've always thought about that, probably because I am a mum who has taken her children to football since they were tiny. I think it has got better over the last few years, but I still think about my trip to Notts County in April 1998. There I was holding my 11 month old daughter when I was pushed over by police as they barged past me dragging someone out of the seats. I got pushed to the ground and was pinning Emily underneath me. Other police looked the other way and there were no stewards to be found. Other fans climbed over seats to help me.

I made a formal complaint and a South Yorkshire officer came to tell me the result. Apparently the Nottinghamshire police didn't think they'd get a good reception from me as I lived in a pit village near Barnsley! I was told that this sort of thing happens in football grounds and that I shouldn't be there with such a young child. I was also told, and I quote: "It was just like Hillsborough, nobody could hear what anyone was shouting".

I've been a firm supporter of the Justice for the 96 Campaign from the start. As so many people have said, if it wasn't for the tragedy, we might not be able to enjoy the facilities and safety we have today. Owing to where my chilren live they will always be reminded of what happened before they were born, but we must not allow this tragedy to fade into the background. We need to salute those who have spent 23 years fighting for the truth on behalf of their loved ones who were denied the right to fair and proper treatment because of sheer incompetence and prejudice

 

[Tooting Gull]

Yep, 1986. The only time I've been genuinely scared at a football match. We took 6,000 up there which means we must have had over 5,000 on that terrace - a terrace which now has a safety certificate for 1,700 or so...

Otherwise a great day out, but that terrace was very, very full. I remember being a bit alarmed at how full the East Terrace was for the Norwich FA Cup QF in 1983, and a couple of Brentford aways were pretty dangerous at the narrow entrances and exits.

 

[ROSM]

Otherwise a great day out, but that terrace was very, very full. I remember being a bit alarmed at how full the East Terrace was for the Norwich FA Cup QF in 1983, and a couple of Brentford aways were pretty dangerous at the narrow entrances and exits.

For the Peterborough game the side terrace (where the newish stand is) was closed and the 1000 or so Brighton fans who had tickets for there were put into the end behind the goal. This caused the crush - my friend came out with footprints on his kacket where people had climbed up and out of the way.

 

[glasfryn]

Tangent: It was unbelievable at the time how safe Highbury was for the 1983 semi-final. I was at the side bit not behind the goal though. I arrived over an hour before the start though, anticipating problems.

Not so White Hart Lane in the late seventies (ticketless), but the Police seemed to have a grip of the chaos. Getting to the ground was tricky so there were many late arrivals.

The Taylor Report recommendations were not gleaned only from the Hillsborough Disaster (the one that was waiting to happen).

we went to that Spurs game and were herded into the nearest pen with can you believe a bunch of Millwall fans and after informing the police there were two or three in there with us they then left leaving us to move to the parting fence and convince one of the stewards that we neede to get out of there ASAP
and if I remember rightly that was one if not the first of Paul ? games

 

[Napper]

Hull City Forum - hillsboro - City Independent

Interesting viewpoint and discussion on Hulls board.

 

[Falkor]

I didn't mean to die by Bobby Parry!.

1989, just another game, was it just a football match, and did I die for blame? April was the month, 15th was the date, time was on my side you know, cos I was never late. Butties for my journey, money off my dad, scarf around my little neck, I am my Mothers lad. Oh the mighty reds, semi final day, couldn’t wait to see my team, I wasn’t drunk okay? Singing on the coach, waving mum goodbye, blow a kiss and see her smile, I didn’t mean to die? Got my ticket here, in my tracksuit top, it was red and white of course, like my old famous Kop.

What an atmosphere, walking to the ground, thousands of supporters sing, I’m feeling safe and sound. Turn-style over there, feel a little push, what’s the need to swear at me, this copper in a rush? Something isn’t right, feeling threatened now, hoarded like an animal, but I’ll get in somehow? I can see gate C, there is something wrong, men on horses lose control, I still hear that song. This anthem was my last, frightened on my own, I lost my dad along the way, my need to walk alone.

The gate was opened wide, they let us in as one, released my fear and said a prayer, where has my daddy gone? Carried by a wave, women kids and men, there was no escape for me, inside this little pen. Nowhere left to go, crying for my dad, Mum I need a little help, cos this is really bad. Coming up for air, there was not enough, taking breath that wasn’t there, already out of puff. Falling to the floor, someone help me please, lift me up and carry me, just get me off my knees. What is going on? Why am I in here? I have come to watch my team, instead I shed a tear.

Why is that man still? Horror on his face, get me out before I die, my only saving grace. The song I love has gone, replaced with cries and screams, this is not what I came for, so distant from my dreams? Lost within a wall, of dying souls like me, my eyes they close as I give up, I’m drowning in this sea. I gasp again for air, but it is way too late, my fight has gone with my last breath, resigned I am to fate. Oh my Mammies tears, the Mersey they will fill, the sorrow of this Saturday, will have to wait until.

Justice being served, I’m angry that I’m dead, amongst the 96 that day, I was to blame they said? The sun they printed truth, of lie’s upon their lie’s, with politicians who were bent, the men I now despise. The police who got it wrong, the carers I don’t trust, the paramedics lied to me, to cover up a must? Say a prayer for me, for I have sorely gone, and long before my time I add, this justice for no one. I am a lonely soul, who longs to be a peace, my mum and dad need peace as well, their pain will never cease.

But on this special day, the truth is plain to see, that I was not to blame that day, this truth is sent by me. My spirit lingers on, cos we shall not be moved, a son who went so far away, a sin that will be proved. I stand in silent awe, beside my loyal friends, the 96 including me, our resting now depends. On evidence so clear, the public my domain, I’ll rise above deceitful men, to be with you again. The light that shines for me, exonerates the blame, the truth is out and I will live, as your eternal flame. I Love you mum and dad, I love you Merseyside, I love you all across the park, together we have pride.

The time has come to rest, so please don’t be too sad, I’ll get the truth to you somehow, so trust in me your lad