[Football] Hillsborough - more police escape justice

[Flagship]

Glad that's over with then.

 

[clapham_gull]

The behaviour of Liverpool fans was no different to any away fans going in thousands to an away game. Unfortunately the behaviour we all get away with every week, up and down the country caught up with them. The result was innocent people lost their lives.
Only a matter of time until it happens again.
To say Liverpool fans are entirely blameless (and I see in that article it does mention that there were ticket less fans) is just blind.
South Yorkshire Police (most police forces it seems) are absolute scum but dismissing other contributing factors helps no one.

.. but the blind can read too.

You've clearly ignored every single investigation and inquiry post the event.

 

[Triggaaar]

To say Liverpool fans are entirely blameless (and I see in that article it does mention that there were ticket less fans) is just blind.

There were ticketless fans at our game on Sunday. There are ticketless fans at many events, not just football. But there aren't disasters every week, because safety systems are in place and Police usually do their job correctly. Putting the blame on Liverpool fans for the disaster is just being offensive for the sake of it, with no evidence to back up your accusations.

 

[LennyTee]

There were ticketless fans at our game on Sunday. There are ticketless fans at many events, not just football. But there aren't disasters every week, because safety systems are in place and Police usually do their job correctly. Putting the blame on Liverpool fans for the disaster is just being offensive for the sake of it, with no evidence to back up your accusations.

Brixton Academy

 

[LennyTee]

There were ticketless fans at our game on Sunday. There are ticketless fans at many events, not just football. But there aren't disasters every week, because safety systems are in place and Police usually do their job correctly. Putting the blame on Liverpool fans for the disaster is just being offensive for the sake of it, with no evidence to back up your accusations.

I haven't put the blame on Liverpool fans.

 

[Triggaaar]

I haven't put the blame on Liverpool fans.

Er...

To say Liverpool fans are entirely blameless (and I see in that article it does mention that there were ticket less fans) is just blind.

Yes you did say they were partly to blame.

 

[LennyTee]

This theory ... "Now we just need Liverpool fans to accept that their behaviour outside the ground contributed to the disaster" has been dispelled many times and making this suggestion again is inflammatory and just mischief making!

So the Liverpool fans queued up in a orderly fashion outside each turnstile, eating cucumber sandwiches and singing hymns? Of course not. They would have been behaving like every clubs fans do close to kick off outside the ground.
Circumstances aligned that day.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Brixton Academy

... was because security guards sold black market tickets so too many people were let in .... by said security guards.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

So the Liverpool fans queued up in a orderly fashion outside each turnstile, eating cucumber sandwiches and singing hymns? Of course not. They would have been behaving like every clubs fans do close to kick off outside the ground.
Circumstances aligned that day.

Can I refer you to @Triggaaar 's post #23 - which sums things up nicely!

 

[LennyTee]

Can I refer you to @Triggaaar 's post #23 - which sums things up nicely!

Refer me to whatever you want, it doesn't make it right.

 

[Bold Seagull]

So the Liverpool fans queued up in a orderly fashion outside each turnstile, eating cucumber sandwiches and singing hymns? Of course not. They would have been behaving like every clubs fans do close to kick off outside the ground.
Circumstances aligned that day.

They may well have been boistrous, frustrated at missing KO, getting agitated, some without tickets etc. but none of those things make them to blame because as you have stated that behaviour is normal at a football match, preditable and expected after 100s of games in which the stadium's safety certificates, procedures and the diligence of police should still keep them safe.

Circumstances didn't align that day, stewarding, policing, and safety of the stadium failed. It really is as simple as that. Surprising people still need it spelling out.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Refer me to whatever you want, it doesn't make it right.

And you can reply as many times you like on this ... it doesn't mean you're right!

 

[happypig]

... was because security guards sold black market tickets so too many people were let in .... by said security guards.

The difference with Hillsboro being that some of them may face prosecution. Just imagine if the security firm were allowed to have an investigation carried out by anothre security firm.

 

[rippleman]

Now we just need Liverpool fans to accept that their behaviour outside the ground contributed to the disaster.
The shithousing after it happened with the SYP making crap up and the media reporting it as fact is already accepted.
Unfortunately the South Yorkshire Police have done bugger all to change their match day policing.
If you are an away fan, you are fair game.

No hope for some.

The "SYP making crap up" included blaming LFC fans behaviour outside of the ground for the disaster. This crap was dispelled a long time ago.

I have no affinity to LFC whatsoever. It could have been us that day - or any other club. No evidence has ever been presented that the LFC fans behaviour outside of the ground was the reason for the tragedy.

On a general point on the "apology". Bishop Jones' report was published in 2017. Six years to make the apology? We have had a serving policeman murderer, another a seriel rapist, over 800 officers in the Met alone under investigation for sex crimes/domestic abuse and the Commissioner of the Met saying he expects 2-3 serving officers in court each week. I will take that apology with a grain of salt rather than a pinch.

 

[LennyTee]

They may well have been boistrous, frustrated at missing KO, getting agitated, some without tickets etc. but none of those things make them to blame because as you have stated that behaviour is normal at a football match, preditable and expected after 100s of games in which the stadium's safety certificates, procedures and the diligence of police should still keep them safe.

Circumstances didn't align that day, stewarding, policing, and safety of the stadium failed. It really is as simple as that. Surprising people still need it spelling out.

I didn't blame them. I said they contributed to the disaster happening. Just like it could have been (and should have been) Forest fans at that end.
As for the stadium failing, it's still open, nothings changed apart from signage.

 

[LennyTee]

And you can reply as many times you like on this ... it doesn't mean you're right!

Glad that's sorted then. People having different opinions, what is the world coming to!

 

[LennyTee]

No hope for some.

The "SYP making crap up" included blaming LFC fans behaviour outside of the ground for the disaster. This crap was dispelled a long time ago.

I have no affinity to LFC whatsoever. It could have been us that day - or any other club. No evidence has ever been presented that the LFC fans behaviour outside of the ground was the reason for the tragedy.

On a general point on the "apology". Bishop Jones' report was published in 2017. Six years to make the apology? We have had a serving policeman murderer, another a seriel rapist, over 800 officers in the Met alone under investigation for sex crimes/domestic abuse and the Commissioner of the Met saying he expects 2-3 serving officers in court each week. I will take that apology with a grain of salt rather than a pinch.

Chin up - I still have hope for you.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I didn't blame them. I said they contributed to the disaster happening. Just like it could have been (and should have been) Forest fans at that end.
As for the stadium failing, it's still open, nothings changed apart from signage.

You said they aren't blameless, what did you mean by that then? They were part of the disaster because it was a human crush - they contributed to it because they were there.

As for the stadium not changing other than signage - all seater, pitchside barriers removed, various other changes over the years. Bit stupid to say it hasn't changed.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

You said they aren't blameless, what did you mean by that then? They were part of the disaster because it was a human crush - they contributed to it because they were there.

As for the stadium not changing other than signage - all seater, pitchside barriers removed, various other changes over the years. Bit stupid to say it hasn't changed.

I've given up on trying to understand what he thinks he means!

 

[clapham_gull]

Ticketless fans implies too many people, which was a possibility at Brixton - we don't know yet.

However as even the original H&S Executive inquiry counted every single person entering the stadium on the CCTV - the "ticketless fans" theory has always been gold plated bullshit and only repeated by the ignorant and the lying.