Hendrie interested in Seagulls return

[BensGrandad]

Nope, wages not worth the return on the pitch.

Living off his name still

Absolutley ridiculous when we have neither any idea of:

(a) His wages now
(b) The wage he expects to get by coming to us
(c) The wage we are prepared to pay
(d) The wage he is prepared to accept.

I have confidence that TB will not pay such a wage that he and the board could not substantiate without causing us/him financial problems. All these people going on about paying the earth and us going into eventual administration as a result show that they have no faith whatsoever in the business accumen of TB. He is a wealthy man not an idiot or con man who will try to fleece the suppliers etc.

 

[Springal]

Absolutley ridiculous when we have neither any idea of:

(a) His wages now
(b) The wage he expects to get by coming to us
(c) The wage we are prepared to pay
(d) The wage he is prepared to accept.

I have confidence that TB will not pay such a wage that he and the board could not substantiate without causing us/him financial problems. All these people going on about paying the earth and us going into eventual administration as a result show that they have no faith whatsoever in the business accumen of TB. He is a wealthy man not an idiot or con man who will try to fleece the suppliers etc.

I know of a signing we did not complete on at christmas, because the player wanted £3800 a week and we would not go above £3500, so absolute confidence in Bloom for watching the purse strings

 

[ewe2]

Absolutley ridiculous when we have neither any idea of:

(a) His wages now
(b) The wage he expects to get by coming to us
(c) The wage we are prepared to pay
(d) The wage he is prepared to accept.

I have confidence that TB will not pay such a wage that he and the board could not substantiate without causing us/him financial problems. All these people going on about paying the earth and us going into eventual administration as a result show that they have no faith whatsoever in the business accumen of TB. He is a wealthy man not an idiot or con man who will try to fleece the suppliers etc.

Says it all.......!

 

[Acker79]

Absolutley ridiculous when we have neither any idea of:

(a) His wages now
(b) The wage he expects to get by coming to us
(c) The wage we are prepared to pay
(d) The wage he is prepared to accept.

I have confidence that TB will not pay such a wage that he and the board could not substantiate without causing us/him financial problems. All these people going on about paying the earth and us going into eventual administration as a result show that they have no faith whatsoever in the business accumen of TB. He is a wealthy man not an idiot or con man who will try to fleece the suppliers etc.

The other side of the is the money worth the performance equation:

(e) How well he will perform for us after a full pre-season and match fitness.

 

[pasty]

Cesc Fabregas perhaps? Or would League One be "too physical" for him.

Actually, it probably would. He'd get kicked all over the park.

 

[Acker79]

IF Hendrie signs he is on acceptable wages .... If you think his wages are too high it is also irrelevant as you are not chairman.

I (genuinely) wonder how this attitude fits in with the criticism of clubs like Pompey, Southampton, Palace, Leicester etc for enjoying the fruits of players they can't afford.

Frequently people criticise their fan bases for not acting sooner, for not having a problem with their respective boards when they had an FA cup in the bag and visits from AC Milan, and the hypocrisy of basking in their glories paying more than theclub can afford may bring, then wallowiing in self pity when it blows up in their face.

 

[pork pie]

I (genuinely) wonder how this attitude fits in with the criticism of clubs like Pompey, Southampton, Palace, Leicester etc for enjoying the fruits of players they can't afford.

Frequently people criticise their fan bases for not acting sooner, for not having a problem with their respective boards when they had an FA cup in the bag and visits from AC Milan, and the hypocrisy of basking in their glories paying more than theclub can afford may bring, then wallowiing in self pity when it blows up in their face.

Your point is very simplistic. ALL CLUBS have to assess the cost and benefit of signing ANY player, relative to their existing and projected revenues.

The Albion are no different. If we get a load of gash players, on low wages, the Club will continue to decline, Falmer will not be filled and its costs will not be recovered, so we will fail. If we get a bunch of good/reasonable players, on wages that are within the Clubs Budget (whatever that may be!), and we can succeed on the pitch, it will attract more fans into Falmer than the current die-hards, revenues will increase, and the Club will succeed.

The clubs that have failed are those that got their sums wrong (e.g. those you quote), not those that have spent big and enjoyed the revenues and profits that go with success (e.g. Arsenal and Manure).

All these people who keep banging on about not spending more than we can afford, are obviously right, but how much can we afford, and indeed, how much needs to be invested into the Team to get the fans to turn up, to pay for our nice new stadium? I suggest we have faith in Tony Bloom and the other Directors to get their sums right - let's face it, TB is supposed to be a top mathematician, so if he cannot get the sums right - who can?

 

[KneeOn]

Can still cut the mustard or whatever the phrase is at this level and lower championship level (which for teh short term is where we want to be, championship at any level). Got two more seasons in him and each game he's played he's looked better, which correlates to his fitness improving with each game. Get him up to scratch by August and we've got a class player on our books.

 

[Acker79]

Your point is very simplistic. ALL CLUBS have to assess the cost and benefit of signing ANY player, relative to their existing and projected revenues.

The Albion are no different. If we get a load of gash players, on low wages, the Club will continue to decline, Falmer will not be filled and its costs will not be recovered, so we will fail. If we get a bunch of good/reasonable players, on wages that are within the Clubs Budget (whatever that may be!), and we can succeed on the pitch, it will attract more fans into Falmer than the current die-hards, revenues will increase, and the Club will succeed.

The clubs that have failed are those that got their sums wrong (e.g. those you quote), not those that have spent big and enjoyed the revenues and profits that go with success (e.g. Arsenal and Manure).

All these people who keep banging on about not spending more than we can afford, are obviously right, but how much can we afford, and indeed, how much needs to be invested into the Team to get the fans to turn up, to pay for our nice new stadium? I suggest we have faith in Tony Bloom and the other Directors to get their sums right - let's face it, TB is supposed to be a top mathematician, so if he cannot get the sums right - who can?

I understand what you say and the points you're making, and agree. I have faith that Bloom is much more grounded and sensible with the business side. This is more of a general question.

At which point do the fans have an obligation to say "hang on a minute, are you sure we can suistain this?".

Yes, spending more on players will bring in better players, leading to better, more successful football. But there is a tipping point. A stage where the cost is outweighing the reward, there are players that will improve the team, but not enough to take it to the next level. Pompey, Palace etc didn't go to the wall because people didn't do their maths properly. It was because they paid too much without getting enough back (in the form of gates and prize money, etc).


Clubs get criticised for spending too much, going into admin, wiping their debts and starting again. Could some of these incidents have happened if more fans took an interest in the club finances and said "hang on, spending 100k a week on that player isn't going to be enough to get us the champions league spot that will bring in the money to cover it, and signing him could lead us to admin, let's not sign him", or more appropriately for our level "Signing Hendrie (on 10k a week*) isn't enough to take us up to the championship where more money coming in will pay for his wages, so perhaps we should look to someone else who can improve the team the same way he can, but on less money, leaving us within our budget, so should we fail to make it up this year, we're not selling everyone off to avoid debt next year".


*=wage made up to illustrate point. I have no idea what wages are being requested/offered



If we criticise a club for going in to admin, should we absolve the fans because "it's not their business what the club pays it's players"?

 

[pork pie]

I understand what you say and the points you're making, and agree. I have faith that Bloom is much more grounded and sensible with the business side. This is more of a general question.

At which point do the fans have an obligation to say "hang on a minute, are you sure we can suistain this?".

Yes, spending more on players will bring in better players, leading to better, more successful football. But there is a tipping point. A stage where the cost is outweighing the reward, there are players that will improve the team, but not enough to take it to the next level. Pompey, Palace etc didn't go to the wall because people didn't do their maths properly. It was because they paid too much without getting enough back (in the form of gates and prize money, etc).


Clubs get criticised for spending too much, going into admin, wiping their debts and starting again. Could some of these incidents have happened if more fans took an interest in the club finances and said "hang on, spending 100k a week on that player isn't going to be enough to get us the champions league spot that will bring in the money to cover it, and signing him could lead us to admin, let's not sign him", or more appropriately for our level "Signing Hendrie (on 10k a week*) isn't enough to take us up to the championship where more money coming in will pay for his wages, so perhaps we should look to someone else who can improve the team the same way he can, but on less money, leaving us within our budget, so should we fail to make it up this year, we're not selling everyone off to avoid debt next year".


*=wage made up to illustrate point. I have no idea what wages are being requested/offered



If we criticise a club for going in to admin, should we absolve the fans because "it's not their business what the club pays it's players"?

It has nothing to do with the fans other than when there are dodgy dealings like over the Goldstone. We do not own the Club, the shareholders do.

As a fan, just sit back and enjoy the ride. The fans from the clubs you quoted have, so why can't we? Not that I have any fear of us going bust like them.

Who are you to judge that investing in Hendrie will not get us to the Championship? We can all see he is a quality player and if Gus feels that he wishes to spend part of his playing budget on him, in the belief that he can be part of a team to get us promoted, then that is good enough for me.

 

[Acker79]

It has nothing to do with the fans other than when there are dodgy dealings like over the Goldstone. We do not own the Club, the shareholders do.

As a fan, just sit back and enjoy the ride. The fans from the clubs you quoted have, so why can't we? Not that I have any fear of us going bust like them.

Who are you to judge that investing in Hendrie will not get us to the Championship? We can all see he is a quality player and if Gus feels that he wishes to spend part of his playing budget on him, in the belief that he can be part of a team to get us promoted, then that is good enough for me.

I'm not talkiing about Hendrie, I'm trying to open up the discussion a bit more, speaking in general terms.

How often is it said that the fans are the life blood of the club? The players, the staff, the owners come and go, but the fans are there for life. The club is there to serve the fans, and is kept going by the fans. Surely they have a right to question how it is run? They have no power to affect it beyond not going, but having their say isn't banned, is it?

Where is the line? Why are we allowed to question the "dodgy" business deals but not a clubs' policy to spend more than it can reasonably expect to regain? When does a deal become dodgy instead of legal but morally iffy?

 

[Chesney Christ]

No, most people on here would point out all the previous failed signings we have made from Arsenal and then extrapolate wildly without engaging either of their brain cells, coming to the conclusion that ALL Arsenal players are gash.
.

Which of those Arsenal players have played over 250 Premiership games and have an England cap for the senior side?

 

[Brovion]

I'm not talkiing about Hendrie, I'm trying to open up the discussion a bit more, speaking in general terms.

How often is it said that the fans are the life blood of the club? The players, the staff, the owners come and go, but the fans are there for life. The club is there to serve the fans, and is kept going by the fans. Surely they have a right to question how it is run? They have no power to affect it beyond not going, but having their say isn't banned, is it?

Where is the line? Why are we allowed to question the "dodgy" business deals but not a clubs' policy to spend more than it can reasonably expect to regain? When does a deal become dodgy instead of legal but morally iffy?

Totally agree - and I know you're one of the people who 'got' the point I was trying to make on the first page. (I can't believe that some people thought I was serious, but then again ...)

As I mentioned on one of the interminable threads about Palace and Portsmouth: no chairman ever got abuse from his fans for spending too much. Always the demand from fans is the same: invest, invest, invest. When it all goes tits up (as it usually does when clubs start spending money they haven't got in 'chasing the dream') those self-same fans then bleat about how 'unfair' it all is and how it "isn't their fault". However they were happy enough to sit back and enjoy the ride (as Pork Pie says), so should they take some of the responsibility when it stops?

 

[pork pie]

Totally agree - and I know you're one of the people who 'got' the point I was trying to make on the first page. (I can't believe that some people thought I was serious, but then again ...)

As I mentioned on one of the interminable threads about Palace and Portsmouth: no chairman ever got abuse from his fans for spending too much. Always the demand from fans is the same: invest, invest, invest. When it all goes tits up (as it usually does when clubs start spending money they haven't got in 'chasing the dream') those self-same fans then bleat about how 'unfair' it all is and how it "isn't their fault". However they were happy enough to sit back and enjoy the ride (as Pork Pie says), so should they take some of the responsibility when it stops?

They have NO responsibility, as they have no control. Without all the facts, they are in no position to know if a club is spending beyond its means. How about Chelsea and Man City fans? Should they be complaining right now? No way that they will be.

Half of the people on here sound like they they are unhappy that the Club is moving forward, and still want the sack cloth and ashes club of the last decade.

 

[BensGrandad]

The other side of the is the money worth the performance equation:

(e) How well he will perform for us after a full pre-season and match fitness.

Do you always have to try to be awkward and go against everybody and their views. Yours again is yet another ridiculous question as it is one that nobody not Hendrie nor Poyet or indeed any of us can possibly answer or guess at an answer to.

 

[Brovion]

They have NO responsibility, as they have no control. Without all the facts, they are in no position to know if a club is spending beyond its means. How about Chelsea and Man City fans? Should they be complaining right now? No way that they will be.

Half of the people on here sound like they they are unhappy that the Club is moving forward, and still want the sack cloth and ashes club of the last decade.

I don't disagree, and I can see what you're saying. And you're 100% correct that yer average fan hasn't got a clue what's going on behind the scenes and therefore has no idea if a club is living beyond it's means or not.

But take Chelsea as an example. They've had MUCH more success recently then they've ever had before because Abramovich has bankrolled them. And boy have they revelled in it. But say he suddenly decided he'd had enough and wanted his money back. All of a sudden he'd go from being a massive benefactor to being a massive creditor, maybe threatening to sell Stamford Bridge for development unless he got his cash back by five o'clock Friday. Under those circumstances would you feel sorry for Chelsea fans who might lose their club? Or would you think that it was payback for all the unsustainable success they'd brought with someone else's money? (And I accept that at least Chelsea haven't used OUR money unlike Portsmouth).

 

[BensGrandad]

Didnt Abramovich say when he first put the money in that they had to be self sufficient in 10 years, which must be up soon.

 

[theonesmith]

Didnt Abramovich say when he first put the money in that they had to be self sufficient in 10 years, which must be up soon.

I believe they already are? But he will still bankroll "Marquee signings"

 

[Acker79]

Do you always have to try to be awkward and go against everybody and their views. Yours again is yet another ridiculous question as it is one that nobody not Hendrie nor Poyet or indeed any of us can possibly answer or guess at an answer to.

Erm... That was my point. I was adding to your list, not contradicting it.

The question was are we paying him too much for what he gives us.

You were highlighting how we don't know what we're paying, I'm highlighting that we don't know what he gives us, so it is completely unanswerable.

 

[Rookie]

Wow all this because someone said they would be interested in coming here