[Brighton] HELP SAVE THE PRINCE ALBERT!!

[The Clamp]

What is the specific danger for The Albert?

Genuine question;

Is it not up to the owner if they sell to developers or not?

They won’t be forced into selling up, will they?

How would a petition possibly have any influence?

I used to love The Albert and would be very sad to see it go, but what can anyone realistically do about it?

Used to be one of my locals. Seen many bands and sunk many pints there. Including a few post match with Herr Tubthumper.
Still have a mates Christmas dinner there most years.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Over 14,000 signatures now

 

[Peteinblack]

I've always thought there should be some sort of law in place that gives priority to existing venues.

Essentially if you move in near to a pub / venue / other then there has to be some extraordinary circumstances for a noise complaint to be upheld.

I once rented a place near (literally attached to) The Engine Room. I knew that going in and I was unsurprised and unaffected by it being pretty noisy Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays. It was a club, it was going to be noisy. One day our neighbour, who'd moved in around the same time as us, asked us to help them get a noise complaint lodged because it was bothering them.

Told them where to go.

Idiots. Don't move somewhere you know there's going to be noise and then act like it's their fault you can't sleep easy.

https://musiciansunion.org.uk/news/musicians-union-welcomes-agent-of-change-victory

 

[RM-Taylor]

Not living in Brighton I don’t know for sure, but isn’t the pub owned by a well known ex-NSCer

Edit - yes it is indeed

 

[CheeseRolls]

What is the specific danger for The Albert?

Genuine question;

Is it not up to the owner if they sell to developers or not?

They won’t be forced into selling up, will they?

How would a petition possibly have any influence?

I used to love The Albert and would be very sad to see it go, but what can anyone realistically do about it?

Used to be one of my locals. Seen many bands and sunk many pints there. Including a few post match with Herr Tubthumper.
Still have a mates Christmas dinner there most years.

Same as it was for the Welly. People move in to a building next door to a live music pub, next thing you know they are complaining about the noise the pub gets expensive and complex sound proofing requirements imposed on them along with restricted hours and it becomes uneconomic to run a live music pub. The Albert is Grade II listed, which pushes up the cost of major alterations.

They fought off an AirBnb plan successfully, but the developers are back with revised plans. The planning laws have been relaxed so that change of use is much simpler to achieve, meaning the building could go residential at any time in the future.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Again, genuine questions from me.

So the owners of the pub, are not looking to sell to developers? There's no element of some brewery somewhere looking to make a quick buck?

There's going to be a planning meeting? Is this going to be decided by all the local councillors?

If that's right? Are they weighing the 10k petition against the rights of the people who have moved in and complained? Or is there legislation which effectively ties their hands?

Is there any suspicion that the people who've made the complaint would be in on any property deal?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Fat Boy Slim played a fundraising gig at The Albert last night. Unfortunately it was invitation only, so we couldn't get in, but it was rocking in there, apparently.

 

[pb21]

The planning laws have been relaxed so that change of use is much simpler to achieve, meaning the building could go residential at any time in the future.

That's not strictly true, it would still be subject to the approval of BHCC that noise from the venue would not impact the intended occupiers of the development.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Again, genuine questions from me.

So the owners of the pub, are not looking to sell to developers? There's no element of some brewery somewhere looking to make a quick buck?

There's going to be a planning meeting? Is this going to be decided by all the local councillors?

If that's right? Are they weighing the 10k petition against the rights of the people who have moved in and complained? Or is there legislation which effectively ties their hands?

Is there any suspicion that the people who've made the complaint would be in on any property deal?

The planning application is for the redevelopment of an adjacent building, which is a disused garage, owned by Johns Camping and nothing to do with the pub. The initial proposal was an AirBnB short let, with bedrooms right next to the live music venue on the first floor of the Albert. The new proposal is I believe office space (I may be wrong on that). Once it is built change of use is trivial under new planning laws.

 

[CheeseRolls]

That's not strictly true, it would still be subject to the approval of BHCC that noise from the venue would not impact the intended occupiers of the development.

Sorry I am struggling to understand your point here?

 

[BrightonCottager]

Reading the Planning Officer's report suggests that the Agent of Change issue has been considered and the ability to convert to residential uses without a further planning application would be removed. Looks like there would also be a condition on any planning permission requiring sound proofing.

I've not read the report, but this would be the correct approach. I shared the petition link with some Fulham supporters who were drinking there before the game and they've signed and shared.

 

[pb21]

Sorry I am struggling to understand your point here?

Any change of use would be under 'The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) (Amendment) Order 2016. This states:

“O.2 - (1) Development under Class O is permitted subject to the condition that before beginning the development, the developer must apply to the local planning authority for a determination as to whether the prior approval of the authority will be required as to -
…
(d) impacts of noise from commercial premises on the intended occupiers of the development…”

Effectively that means any change of use would be subject to the same requirements, in terms of commercial noise, as if it was a normal planning application.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Any change of use would be under 'The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) (Amendment) Order 2016. This states:

“O.2 - (1) Development under Class O is permitted subject to the condition that before beginning the development, the developer must apply to the local planning authority for a determination as to whether the prior approval of the authority will be required as to -
…
(d) impacts of noise from commercial premises on the intended occupiers of the development…”

Effectively that means any change of use would be subject to the same requirements, in terms of commercial noise, as if it was a normal planning application.

Ok understood. So the developer puts in sound proofing to meet the minimum requirements. 6 months later the occupants pay for a new check and it exceeds the limit and now we have the start of a lengthy legal dispute, which the developer is no longer part of.

 

[Mellotron]

Signed - seen a number of great gigs here, would be very sad if we lost this place.

 

[pb21]

Ok understood. So the developer puts in sound proofing to meet the minimum requirements. 6 months later the occupants pay for a new check and it exceeds the limit and now we have the start of a lengthy legal dispute, which the developer is no longer part of.

Well, initially the developer will be constructing the new building to meet the the minimum requirements for the commercial use (which look to be 10 dB better than the minimum building regs requirements for resi to resi). I think this seems fine for the proposed commercial use (but I think unlikely to be fine if residential).

There looks to be a condition, so it should be built and tested and signed off prior to use....

If down the line they want to change it to resi that will need to be a different scheme and considered on its own merits. I suspect if they construct the building to meet the commercial use requirement, which is less noise sensitive, it will be very tricky to engineer a solution appropriate for residential amenity.

 

[Weststander]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-67270875

 

[RM-Taylor]

Planning application refused:

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Planning application refused:

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The power of a 10k petition in a city full of marginal council seats.

Wonderful news.

Appreciate the incredible pubs we have in our city peeps. I intend to do just that this weekend

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Brilliant news.