[Albion] Has to be done - Potter In or Out?

[Hamilton]

You're comparing a team that's baseline spend per player is £40m.
With one who's baseline is £18m.

But looking at spend trends we should be getting more return on investment and Potter should be demanding it.

Last window:

West Ham: £540,000
Expenditure: £19.98m
Income: £20.52m

Albion: -£2.61m
Expenditure: £21.15m
Income: £18.54m

See below. Total spend and net spend for past 5 years.

1 Manchester City £505.6 M £101.1 M
2 Manchester United £378.9 M £75.8 M
4 Chelsea £133.2 M £26.6 M
3 Everton £275.0 M £55.0 M
5 Arsenal £249.0 M £49.8 M
6 Brighton & Hove Albion £197.4 M £39.5 M
7 Liverpool £92.4 M £18.5 M
8 AFC Bournemouth £133.4 M £26.7 M
9 West Ham £155.7 M £31.1 M
14 Wolverhampton Wanderers £184.8 M £37.0 M
10 Leicester £112.6 M £22.5 M
11 Crystal Palace £56.2 M £11.2 M
15 Watford £95.2 M £19.0 M
12 Newcastle United £107.5 M £21.5 M
15 Aston Villa £198.1 M £39.6 M
16 Burnley £52.5 M £10.5 M
17 Tottenham £94.6 M £18.9 M
18 Sheffield United £40.3 M £08.1 M
19 Southampton -£02.8 M -£00.6 M
20 Norwich City -£46.8 M -£09.4 M

I'd suggest that the club are more interested in breeding and selling racehorses than actually racing them.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Sadly, I can only vote based upon what I have seen, and reluctantly, I have voted OUT.

I like the style of play; I have nothing against Graham Potter; but I don't think he has the leadership qualities to take a team playing in the most competitive top flight league in the world forward.

Look at teams like West Ham who have pushed on which David Moyes of all people in charge and with a dysfunctional leadership team. We we have done very poorly in comparison. It isn't just Potter's fault - it goes deeper - but I'm not seeing much fight in the man.

I'm not about to start a campaign for his head and I hope things comes good, but just based on what I've seen to date, he isn't good enough.

Haller - £45 million;
Anderson - £34 million;
Fornals - £25 million;
Diop - £22.5 million;
Benrahma - £20 million (at the end of his loan);
Bowen - £20 million;
Yarmolenko - £18 million;
Soucek - £15 million;
Lanzini - £11 million;
Snodgrass - £11 million;
Ogbonna - £10 million;
Antonio - £9 million.

It's not really a fair comparison.

 

[Peteinblack]

I've backed him so far, but have now moved onto the fence. The failure to beat Burnley and West Brom really set alarm bells ringing for me.

If we don't get anything from our next 4 games (all but one against struggling teams), then I think he should go.

It's bizarre, because we've signed some good players this year, but the same old weaknesses remain at both ends of the pitch; somehow, the team seems less than the sum of its parts.

He's a nice guy, but perhaps 'too nice' for the task at hand. He comes across as clueless in post-match interviews: "We'll take the positives. We'll learn from this." Same old, same old.

And to the obvious question from those who still have faith in him, "No, I don't know who should replace him."

People have said since the start of the season: "Don't panic, he'll turn things around. Our luck will change soon. We'll start scoring soon, pick up some deserved wins" - but I genuinely don't understand this optimism (or is it desperate faith?).

 

[Hamilton]

NSC in massive over-reaction shock.

For all the irritations like set pieces, bottom line is we’re a decently coached team lacking clinical strikers. Even last night we should have taken the lead. The real test for Potter is ensuring our players don’t become as negative as the fans.

We should have taken the lead. We didn't.

We should in the previous game. We didn't.

There is a trend emerging.

We can't be a club that sits back on the statistics and then just assumes it will all come good. This is why the club hung onto Hyypia for so long - the stats were looking good, except for the one that had us bottom of the league.

 

[Stat Brother]

I'd suggest that the club are more interested in breeding and selling racehorses than actually racing them.

Not quite and certainly not news.

The club are more interested in breeding than buying racehorses.


Do the fans believe in the process?

 

[zefarelly]

I've backed him so far, but have now moved onto the fence. The failure to beat Burnley and West Brom really set alarm bells ringing for me.

If we don't get anything from our next 4 games (all but one against struggling teams), then I think he should go.

He's a nice guy, but perhaps 'too nice' for the task at hand. It's bizarre, because we've signed some good players this year, but the same old weaknesses remain at both ends of the pitch; somehow, the team seems less than the sum of its parts.

He comes across as clueless in post-match interviews: "We'll take the positives. We'll learn from this." Same old, same old.

And to the obvious question from those who still have faith in him, "No, I don't know who should replace him."

People have said since the start of the season: "Don't panic, he'll turn things around. Our luck will change soon. We'll start scoring soon, pick up some deserved wins" - but I genuinely don't understand this optimism (or is it desperate faith?).

I agree. I think the optimism is because when we play some nice disco stuff it is a treat, unfortunately we're not quite good enough. THere is a time and a place for that, and I think most of us believe its achievable one day, however we need to knuckle down and play some games in a way just to get a result

I don't think GP has the measure of his opposites at the arse end of the table, he's not a fighter, and I don't think he's capable of scrapping either.

 

[Stat Brother]

We should have taken the lead. We didn't.

We should in the previous game. We didn't.

There is a trend emerging.

At Villa:-

'Danny Welbeck is never going to miss that kind of opportunity'.

At Leicester:-

'You're now playing for Brighton'.

 

[Hamilton]

Pre game - 'Not expecting anything from tonight, but if we do get another couple of sitters I am expecting to score at least one of them and it just wouldn't be acceptable to be 3-0 down at half time and playing without a clue'.
Post game - 'Sack the board, the manager, half the players'.


Doesn't make sense to me.

Just added a bit of context for you.

As I say, I hope it comes good and I like the style of play, but there's not bite and the problems seem deeper. We're lacking a killer instinct all over the club and would much rather develop a nice 'brand' of football all round.

UTA and come on Graham, get the boys fired up and thump Sheffield Utd.

 

[Insel affe]

Lose against Fulham, Sheff United and I may start to squirm, get knocked outta the cup by Newport and i may just be in the out camp.

 

[zefarelly]

Not quite and certainly not news.

The club are more interested in breeding than buying racehorses.


Do the fans believe in the process?

Has anyone pointed out there are some Donkeys in the stables? and a few Shetland ponies.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I've backed him so far, but have now moved onto the fence. The failure to beat Burnley and West Brom really set alarm bells ringing for me.

If we don't get anything from our next 4 games (all but one against struggling teams), then I think he should go.

He's a nice guy, but perhaps 'too nice' for the task at hand. It's bizarre, because we've signed some good players this year, but the same old weaknesses remain at both ends of the pitch; somehow, the team seems less than the sum of its parts.

He comes across as clueless in post-match interviews: "We'll take the positives. We'll learn from this." Same old, same old.

And to the obvious question from those who still have faith in him, "No, I don't know who should replace him."

People have said since the start of the season: "Don't panic, he'll turn things around. Our luck will change soon. We'll start scoring soon, pick up some deserved wins" - but I genuinely don't understand this optimism (or is it desperate faith?).

That sums it up for me.

 

[shingle]

100% in

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

I don't get the "no passion/no fight" arguments every time the team loses. That can happen of course, but just because a team loses that accusation is often so shallow. Sheffield United.. can they be accused of not showing any passion/fight? That is their hallmark isn't it? What about Fulham or Burnley? Why is it that we are accused of showing no passion ? Clinton Morrison suggested that the team were quiet last night.. let's not confuse player style with desire. On the contrary, I would argue that we have shown plenty of fight this season so far.. Man United, Tottenham, Liverpool, Newcastle, Burnley, even Everton away, scoring despite the game being lost already. Even last night, 3-0 down at half-time - there was no surrender, no capitulation. Even if you take the stance that Leicester didn't bother (that doesn't appear to be in their make-up - ask Saints who were 5-0 down at half-time) the team stuck at it.
Why on earth a rant at the post-match interview? I always suspect that is for fans benefit, or is specifically directed at one individual player and draws much criticism from those within the game.
Sometimes we will be good/poor. Occasionally we will be brilliant. Sometimes we will be rubbish. But to suggest the level of fight or passion in a team is at a level because of results is laughable.

last night I think GP made some mistakes. I think Welbeck made a mistake missing the best chance of the game. I think Ryan made a mistake not saving the 1st goal. None of those tell me that the individuals lacked passion or fight. Not shouting at the TV cameras doesn't tell me that either..

 

[Stat Brother]

but if we do get another couple of sitters I am expecting to score at least one of them and it just wouldn't be acceptable to be 3-0 down at half time and playing without a clue'.


Just added a bit of context for you.

As I say, I hope it comes good and I like the style of play, but there's not bite and the problems seem deeper. We're lacking a killer instinct all over the club and would much rather develop a nice 'brand' of football all round.

UTA and come on Graham, get the boys fired up and thump Sheffield Utd.

That just comes back to my original post - Why would you expect Leicester away to be different, when before the game you definitely didn't?



It turns out GPott - this team - the process as a whole is now perfectly set up for judgement in the post game on 29.12.20.

Hindsight suggests the team selection last night was more to do with the next 2 games and bizarrely 3 of the next 4 games.

New year
New transfer window.
New manager?

 

[zefarelly]

I don't get the "no passion/no fight" arguments every time the team loses. That can happen of course, but just because a team loses that accusation is often so shallow. Sheffield United.. can they be accused of not showing any passion/fight? That is their hallmark isn't it? What about Fulham or Burnley? Why is it that we are accused of showing no passion ? Clinton Morrison suggested that the team were quiet last night.. let's not confuse player style with desire. On the contrary, I would argue that we have shown plenty of fight this season so far.. Man United, Tottenham, Liverpool, Newcastle, Burnley, even Everton away, scoring despite the game being lost already. Even last night, 3-0 down at half-time - there was no surrender, no capitulation. Even if you take the stance that Leicester didn't bother (that doesn't appear to be in their make-up - ask Saints who were 5-0 down at half-time) the team stuck at it.
Why on earth a rant at the post-match interview? I always suspect that is for fans benefit, or is specifically directed at one individual player and draws much criticism from those within the game.
Sometimes we will be good/poor. Occasionally we will be brilliant. Sometimes we will be rubbish. But to suggest the level of fight or passion in a team is at a level because of results is laughable.

last night I think GP made some mistakes. I think Welbeck made a mistake missing the best chance of the game. I think Ryan made a mistake not saving the 1st goal. None of those tell me that the individuals lacked passion or fight. Not shouting at the TV cameras doesn't tell me that either..

True, but psychologically, the manager needs the fans behind the players, team, himself etc . . . . If he doesn't express himself in a manner people can understand, or at all, how does he expect to keep them onside? OR, does he not consider that? ( I doubt it, but his previous comments do beg the question) . . . He does come accross as somewhat aloof in that respect, IF that is the case one could argue it's a bit arrogant. IF the fans turn on him en mass sooner rather than later he's effectively signed his own death warrant.

 

[One Love]

After sleeping on it I've gone from fence to out.

My concern is that his tinkering with the match day squad and tactics is probably a reflection of what happens day to day in training and it's starting to impact the players.

TV pundits were saying we had no leadership and fight when it started going against us so team spirit is being affected.

Our team has become a reflection of the personality of the manager, too passive, vanilla. It's all very well being calm and balanced but on a football pitch you need passion and fire in your belly.

 

[Simster]

Pre game - 'Not expecting anything from tonight'.
Post game - 'Sack the board, the manager, half the players'.


Doesn't make sense to me.

It never seems to make sense to you to ever ever ever question anything about the club. If it was left to you, you'd be smugly patronising people on here for their outrage if we still had Craig McKail-Smith leading the line. You seem incapable of objectively analysing problems in the team, presumably for fear of people disagreeing with you.

NSC in massive over-reaction shock.

For all the irritations like set pieces, bottom line is we’re a decently coached team lacking clinical strikers. Even last night we should have taken the lead. The real test for Potter is ensuring our players don’t become as negative as the fans.

I'm not calling for his head as you can see in my earlier post, but you are not seeing the bigger picture if you think this "doesn't make sense" or is a "massive over-reaction". I'd barely grumble if we lost meekly at Leicester - a club with Champions League aspirations - if it wasn't for the evidence that is beginning to stack up. We are toothless up front, we can't defend set-pieces, we have one home win in this entire calendar year, and we are only a couple of points from the relegation places.

Now as I said above, I'm happy to give him until the turn of the year, and there are two reasons for that:
1) Playing attractive football but not getting the results our play deserves might wash as an excuse for 10 matches, but this has been the case for the past 40 matches. It is starting to look less and less like bad luck. With another month, I'd like to see if this pattern continues, or whether we might actually see some improvement in results.
2) He seemingly waved the white flag before a ball was kicked last night with an absurd team selection (and then not changing things before the match had gone), but that's fine if we pick up 4-6 points from the next two crucial matches. I can't say I like this idea of prioritising games, but if that's Potter's call, then I'll judge him after the 3 games, not before.

But this reaction does make sense and is not a massive overreaction. You're both wrong IMO.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Fence. The next 2 games could sway me either way.

Me too, next Sunday against the Blades is a massive game, and we need to win it.

A major worry for me is the confidence of the players, when Vardy scored the second last night, you could visibly see any fragile confidence that they had, dissipate. Once that confidence goes then the game is up.

Although l applaud his methods Potter has had about a season and a half in the job now, and certainly in terms of league position l don't see any real difference to that under his predecessor.

Mind you, if the board do decide to pull the plug, or Potter walks, who would we be able to replace him with? One totally off the wall suggestion might be to appoint a senior statesman, with the likes of Liam Rosenior or Glenn Murray to assist him with a view to taking over in the future.

 

[jessiejames]

Maybe just maybe, Potter is to good for us. He has changed our style/ brand of football from defend for our lives, try not to concede and hope for a breakaway goal, to entertaining passing football, creating chances in just over a season. Any manager can do that with players and a transfer budget like at Man City, Liverpool and Everton.

These teams are shopping at Harrods, we are buying from the middle of Lidl. We don't have a owner as rich as those that I have mentioned, so spunking Millions on players is not going to happen. Maybe the problem is with the recruitment. When the team is picked and they go on to the pitch and miss chance after chance or leave an opposition player free to score that is not down to Potte, because I bet they are not taught that in training.
Imho we should keep with Potter even if we are relegated.

 

[Justice]

Maybe just maybe, Potter is to good for us. He has changed our style/ brand of football from defend for our lives, try not to concede and hope for a breakaway goal, to entertaining passing football, creating chances in just over a season. Any manager can do that with players and a transfer budget like at Man City, Liverpool and Everton.

These teams are shopping at Harrods, we are buying from the middle of Lidl. We don't have a owner as rich as those that I have mentioned, so spunking Millions on players is not going to happen. Maybe the problem is with the recruitment. When the team is picked and they go on to the pitch and miss chance after chance or leave an opposition player free to score that is not down to Potte, because I bet they are not taught that in training.
Imho we should keep with Potter even if we are relegated.

Mental post, Rogers changed his tactics after 20 mins and got on top of the game Potter diid absolutely nothing in response he’s not good enough. Swedish football and a middling championship season not enough experience IMO.