Has Cameron blown it with the EU negotiations ?

[JC Footy Genius]

.... i am 100% sure if the uk voted out that there would be serious moves to keep the country in. Too much vested interest

Yep it's all about vested interests. Scotland's referendum was meant to be once in a generation but surprise surprise they soon find reasons why they would call another one.

And of course the EU has form ignoring/circumventing referendum results.

 

[Winker]

This country has a long and proud tradition of standing up to and defeating the biggest powers and craziest dictators of Europe, from Napoleon to the Kaiser, from Hitler to the communist bloc, we have destroyed them all. The EU is just the latest manifestation to be confronted and put in its place.

 

[happypig]

This country has a long and proud tradition of standing up to and defeating the biggest powers and craziest dictators of Europe, from Napoleon to the Kaiser, from Hitler to the communist bloc, we have destroyed them all. The EU is just the latest manifestation to be confronted and put in its place.

You are Captain George Mainwaring AICMFP

 

[Lincoln Imp]

B

Of course we are. Rules are made to determine the subsidies countries get, and the payments the countries should make. Things like the common agricultural policy, fishing rights etc. When decisions like that are made, there are winners and losers, so to assume that all countries get the same deal is naive.

It's not the world, it's the EU, who treat us like the bank of mum & dad.
Is that your argument?

But do they really? It sometimes feels that the average Englishman thinks that the average Englishman contributes far more to the EU than anyone else, convinced that horrid foreign people are ganging up on him.

 

[dangull]

B
But do they really? It sometimes feels that the average Englishman thinks that the average Englishman contributes far more to the EU than anyone else, convinced that horrid foreign people are ganging up on him.

I thought the facts are we pay more into the EU than we get back in terms of revenue.

 

[crookie]

We've always been semi-detatched from the EU 'project', even under Blair who started his time as PM as a fervent Pro-European. A big reason is because we have never, in living memory suffered occupation or fascist Government, unlike nearly all the other members, who are more than happy to pool their sovereignty to ensure this never happens again. As part of a trading bloc with associated rules, we are happy to accept, but the idea of surrendering more and more sovereignty as the block has expanded, for the 'common good'. The establishment might well find out that the public decides No Thanks

 

[Soulman]

B
But do they really? It sometimes feels that the average Englishman thinks that the average Englishman contributes far more to the EU than anyone else, convinced that horrid foreign people are ganging up on him.

We give the 4th most out of the EU countries, 2nd in giving most to EU Budget, as others have stated we get a very low amount back in comparison.
For a comparison take a look at Poland, how much they put in and how much they get out.

As people seem to like graphs, the comparisons can be seen at the end of the article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

 

[JC Footy Genius]

There is unanimous support for a deal between the UK and the EU, European Council president Donald Tusk has said.

Game on

 

[dangull]

USA led NATO and the threat of the USSR was the reason why there has been no major wars in Europe after WW2.

The EU and united nations was totally ineffective in the break up of Yugoslavia as well.

 

[wellquickwoody]

So you're going to vote in and then f*** off and leave us all in the s**t, just because you think it's good for trade and business?

If you're really leaving, and don't give a s**t, at least have the common decency not to try to contribute to imposing your views on the rest of us, who do give a s**t. Anyone with a shred of decency in those circumstances wouldn't vote.

Wow, hit a nerve there then!

If you care to slow down and actually read my post you will see that I said that I 'should not give a sxxt', but I do. I do care for the future of those that I call friends, I care about family, and I care about colleagues and their families, and for those reasons I will cast my ballot for the side that I feel will best help them. And if you want to get really want to get pedantic about things, please remember that the pension that I have paid into for the last 30 odd years will still be paid to me overseas but will be subject to the whims and wishes of both changes of national government and, in the future, possible changes in European policy.

Oh, and I will accept your apology for your rudeness if you care to offer one, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Put your faith in democracy my cynical compatriot.

though one persons realism is another cynicism. There is nothing undemocrwtic thoguh of a counter offer that would be too good not to put to the people

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The death of our great country that would be...We don't need the EU and they will be desperate for our trade regardless.
That's a defeatist post and I long for the day when the British people become strong again unlike the wimpy people of today...This is Great Britain and we have always stood strong and succeeded and we will again soon I hope just like the previous hundreds of years.
Do people really want to be part governed by a bunch of idiots in Brussels seriously?
Do you want 300/400/500 thousand migrants every year flocking in?
To many reasons to leave and very few reasons to stay if any.

I was responding to someone else's post about if we were to try to go back after leaving, suggesting that we may have to concede more than we already do now if we did try (and it may be in our interest in the future to be involved, who knows)

My personal opinion about the matter is that i am not in a position to make my mine up about it yet as i have no ideas of the benefits of either staying in the EU or leaving it (scaremongering aside) and the true impact on our lives and economy, both in the short and long term of either option

What do we truly get from being in members in the EU, what would we lose if we left? and so on....

 

[GT49er]

Once in payment, your pension is likely to go on being paid whether we're in or out. Governments (and private pension funders for that matter) have a history of mucking about with future pensions - like they're changing the starting ages for OAPs now - but not for mucking about once in payment.
As for the rest, if you worded your post badly in a way that mislead readers, that's your problem. No apology.


....but yes, I do seem to have hit a nerve!

 

[clapham_gull]

I might as well out myself as quite an anti-EU type person.

It doesn't come from any sense of nationalism (or patriotism) - I simply hate bureaucracy and the huge big state thing. It's all a bit of a con anyway when multi-national companies can move within the EU "state" itself to gain tax advantages.

My disappointment with "the left" over the last few decades is that many have aligned themselves to it to simply gain difference over the loony fringe of the conservative party.

Lazy. Give us a reason to vote you back in rather than simply expect the EU to form part of your opposition.

 

[skipper734]

[h=3][/h]Posted at 22:11
Now a deal has been reached, the EU referendum is expected to be held on 23 June, although this date has not yet been officially confirmed.
The new deal provides for a seven-year emergency brake on in-work benefits for EU migrant workers, as well as cuts in child benefit for their children living overseas - applicable immediately for new arrivals and from 2020 for the 34,000 existing claimants.
It also says that EU treaties will be amended to state explicitly that references to the requirement to seek ever-closer union "do not apply to the United Kingdom".

 

[GT49er]

[h=3][/h]Posted at 22:11
Now a deal has been reached, the EU referendum is expected to be held on 23 June, although this date has not yet been officially confirmed.
The new deal provides for a seven-year emergency brake on in-work benefits for EU migrant workers, as well as cuts in child benefit for their children living overseas - applicable immediately for new arrivals and from 2020 for the 34,000 existing claimants.
It also says that EU treaties will be amended to state explicitly that references to the requirement to seek ever-closer union "do not apply to the United Kingdom".

Yep, Neville Chamberlain - a piece of paper - 1938 - Munich...........rings a bell...........

 

[Triggaaar]

But do they really? It sometimes feels that the average Englishman thinks that the average Englishman contributes far more to the EU than anyone else, convinced that horrid foreign people are ganging up on him.

The figures show that we contribute a lot. The figures show we've had a bad deal on agriculture, purely because we don't have as much land as the likes of France and Germany. But you think pointing that out makes me a racist? You couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I might as well out myself as quite an anti-EU type person.

It doesn't come from any sense of nationalism (or patriotism) - I simply hate bureaucracy and the huge big state thing. It's all a bit of a con anyway when multi-national companies can move within the EU "state" itself to gain tax advantages.

My disappointment with "the left" over the last few decades is that many have aligned themselves to it to simply gain difference over the loony fringe of the conservative party.

Lazy. Give us a reason to vote you back in rather than simply expect the EU to form part of your opposition.

This whole charade has just exposed how much power we have really lost to Brussels. The Prime Minister caught in Bureaucratic bullshit for hours where other countries in the EU determine who gets our benefits.

 

[5ways]

The figures show that we contribute a lot. The figures show we've had a bad deal on agriculture, purely because we don't have as much land as the likes of France and Germany. But you think pointing that out makes me a racist? You couldn't be further from the truth.

We actually have a rather good deal when it comes to the EU budget thanks to the rebate. www.economist.com/news/britain/2169...force=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/thatbudgethtatdidntbark

 

[Pavilionaire]

The news coming out is that Cameron seems to have achieved more than most thought possible. He gave an eloquent but succinct speech on the outcome and the fact that if the deal stood he would campaign to keep the UK in the EU.

At the same time Gove backs BRexit, while the OUT campaign meeting tonight showed George Galloway in support of Nigel Farage's views.

Today has been a good day for Cameron. I am a committed European and will vote IN, it is a disappointing that a dysfunctional EU and a historically stand-offish UK have reached this point, I would have preferred us to have shaped the project more in the 80s and 90s.

I just hope that having got a deal Cameron commits to the EU, puts his heart and soul into the campaign and starts to show more solidarity with our EU partners rather than looking purely at British self-interest.