Gus's poor treatment of jfc....

[The Large One]

No I'm not, my point is that age doesn't matter if your good enough... What point am I missing, he is not good enough? or Gus doesn't think he is good enough?.. Either of these may be the case, but please stop saying 17 is too young. Norman Whiteside was 17 when he played in a World Cup.

I never said anything about 17 not being old enough if you're good enough.

No, the point was about over-hyping and bigging someone up before they're ready, and how that can lead to pressure and ultimately disappointment. And JFC is not ready. Jake Robinson was considered just as good (in his own role) at the same age by many, in careful need of looking after - and look what happened to him.

JFC did well in some of the games he played, but was put back in his rightful place to continue his football education in the proper manner.

The examples you cite are exceptionally rare. To put JFC in the same bracket as Rooney and Whiteside is ludicrous. He's nothing like as good or as ready as them at 17.

 

[kevtherev]

You're missing the point.

You're also talking with hindsight.

Of course the point could be, that he came in when Poyet had no choice but to play him. He waited for him to have one poor game against a prem side, then forgot the three or so great games he had before that and has not been seen since, once Poyet's "boys" were back from injury suspension. Despite the run of great results when JFC started....What point am I missing or is all what iv'e said a load of bullshit, because that's how I remember the Southampton game and a few others around that time. Caskey's form turned our form around,,or was that Poyet genuis again

 

[kevtherev]

I never said anything about 17 not being old enough if you're good enough.

No, the point was about over-hyping and bigging someone up before they're ready, and how that can lead to pressure and ultimately disappointment. And JFC is not ready. Jake Robinson was considered just as good (in his own role) at the same age by many, in careful need of looking after - and look what happened to him.

JFC did well in some of the games he played, but was put back in his rightful place to continue his football education in the proper manner.

The examples you cite are exceptionally rare. To put JFC in the same bracket as Rooney and Whiteside is ludicrous. He's nothing like as good or as ready as them at 17.

So he was good enough to be thrown into a injury ravaged side against local rivals, who were top of the league, over more seasoned players, whom Poyet signed and get man of the match....But now he is back in his rightful place....ffs,,,Poyet is the "Messiah"....unbelieveable some people on here.

 

[The Large One]

Of course the point could be, that he came in when Poyet had no choice but to play him. He waited for him to have one poor game against a prem side, then forgot the three or so great games he had before that and has not been seen since, once Poyet's "boys" were back from injury suspension. Despite the run of great results when JFC started....What point am I missing or is all what iv'e said a load of bullshit, because that's how I remember the Southampton game and a few others around that time. Caskey's form turned our form around,,or was that Poyet genuis again

You're talking up JFC in EXACTLY way many were about Robinson...

 

[The Large One]

So he was good enough to be thrown into a injury ravaged side against local rivals, who were top of the league, over more seasoned players, whom Poyet signed and get man of the match....But now he is back in his rightful place....ffs,,,Poyet is the "Messiah"....unbelieveable some people on here.

I do love the way you evidently feel you know more than Gus does.

i.e. you're the one who is right and Poyet is oh so wrong...

 

[Commander]

Ian Chapman anyone,,,Bobby Zamora anyone,,, Wayne Rooney anyone.....if you good enough your old enough. Robinson was never good enough in the first place. This age stuff is a load of bullshit.

Bobby Zamora made his debut for us when he was 19, JFC is 17. Wayne Rooney is a world class footballer, JFC is not. There is a huge difference.

No I'm not, my point is that age doesn't matter if your good enough... What point am I missing, he is not good enough? or Gus doesn't think he is good enough?.. Either of these may be the case, but please stop saying 17 is too young. Norman Whiteside was 17 when he played in a World Cup.

The point you are missing is that Gus doesn't feel he is equipped to cope with the first team regularly at 17 years old, and rightly so. That doesn't mean he thinks he doesn't have the talent to make it with us in the future.

Do you understand that a player can be not good enough for the 1st team at 17, yet go on to be good enough at 20, and then maybe go on to be good enough to play at a higher level at 25? Or do you think that once he's 17 that's it, he's at the same level he'll be for the rest of his career?

As for Norman Whiteside, his playing career was finished by the time he was 26, which is EXACTLY what Gus is trying to avoid happening with the likes of JFC, by developing them at the right pace and not burning them out.

You really are one of the thickest people on this board.

 

[kevtherev]

Bobby Zamora made his debut for us when he was 19, JFC is 17. Wayne Rooney is a world class footballer, JFC is not. There is a huge difference.



The point you are missing is that Gus doesn't feel he is equipped to cope with the first team regularly at 17 years old, and rightly so. That doesn't mean he thinks he doesn't have the talent to make it with us in the future.

Do you understand that a player can be not good enough for the 1st team at 17, yet go on to be good enough at 20, and then maybe go on to be good enough to play at a higher level at 25? Or do you think that once he's 17 that's it, he's at the same level he'll be for the rest of his career?

As for Norman Whiteside, his playing career was finished by the time he was 26, which is EXACTLY what Gus is trying to avoid happening with the likes of JFC, by developing them at the right pace and not burning them out.

You really are one of the thickest people on this board.

At least im not one of the most brainwashed.

 

[The Large One]

At least im not one of the most brainwashed.

Jesus wept. Not that easy to wash your brain when it's one of the least used organs in your body...

 

[Commander]

At least im not one of the most brainwashed.

Great response. I loved your Norman Whiteside example, I'm not sure you could have come up with a better one to completely disprove your argument.

 

[Diego Napier]

So he was good enough to be thrown into a injury ravaged side against local rivals, who were top of the league, over more seasoned players, whom Poyet signed and get man of the match....But now he is back in his rightful place....ffs,,,Poyet is the "Messiah"....unbelieveable some people on here.

I have to admire the thickness of your skin.

After the unbelievably cocking drivel you put on the Vicente thread and your subsequent failure to deliver your promise to "nail my bollocks to the kitchen table, drag it down to Brighton and drag it up and down the Palace Pier signing "my old man's a dustman", you're back on here giving it the old billy nail-less big bollocks and having a go at posters again.

Actually, thickness of your head is probably far more accurate.

 

[NMH]

I never said anything about 17 not being old enough if you're good enough.

No, the point was about over-hyping and bigging someone up before they're ready, and how that can lead to pressure and ultimately disappointment. And JFC is not ready. Jake Robinson was considered just as good (in his own role) at the same age by many, in careful need of looking after - and look what happened to him.

JFC did well in some of the games he played, but was put back in his rightful place to continue his football education in the proper manner.

The examples you cite are exceptionally rare. To put JFC in the same bracket as Rooney and Whiteside is ludicrous. He's nothing like as good or as ready as them at 17.

What did happen to Robinson?
As far as I could tell he played to the best of his ability, and that was of a standard just enough to bag an occasional goal in league 1, or be quite decent in league 2.
I don't see how he was spoiled or damaged by his eventual appearances for us. The Mothers of NSC absolutely raved about him, wanted to breast feed him and put him in the movies, when he was scoring goals for the reserves. Other than that, he had a normal childhood with The Albion I thought.

Launching young players into the squad is not something that we need to hurry about - but one thing I WILL criticise Gus for, was bringing in the last couple of loanees at that point in the season. I don't think they added anything needed, and may have caused a few of the lads to question the future of BHA as their team.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Same with Giggs, same with Scholes, same with Beckham etc etc etc. I think Gus brings the young players in really well. He gives them two or three games in the first team for some experience, then it's back to the development squad to keep learning, and keep developing. Once they are ready, he brings them in. Dunk came in at 19 and did well, I wouldn't expect to see JFC regularly until that age.

It's all a far cry from our old tactics of chucking some kid who had done well in the youth team into the first team, and then when he doesn't set the world alight after 10 games the crowd turn on him and ruin him, sending his career into a downward slide and off into non league. We don't need to risk that anymore.

Note the disappointing case of Tommy Fraser.

I think all that needs saying in response to this thread has been said.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Of course the point could be, that he came in when Poyet had no choice but to play him. He waited for him to have one poor game against a prem side, then forgot the three or so great games he had before that and has not been seen since, once Poyet's "boys" were back from injury suspension. Despite the run of great results when JFC started....What point am I missing or is all what iv'e said a load of bullshit, because that's how I remember the Southampton game and a few others around that time. Caskey's form turned our form around,,or was that Poyet genuis again

Good games..but I wouldn't say great..anyway wasn't his initial disapprance down to injury?

 

[The Buttery Biscuit Base]

 

[Jim Van Winkle]

Great response. I loved your Norman Whiteside example, I'm not sure you could have come up with a better one to completely disprove your argument.

I am glad you pointed out the error in his Norman Whiteside statement. Plenty of players have been burnt out from too many games at an early age just look at Fowler and Owen.

 

[JBizzle]

A better example of overhyping is Joe Gatting. He was shoved into the first team and expected to save us from Championship relegation. Now he's playing cricket.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Would [MENTION=2332]seagull1[/MENTION]984 be kind enough to explain how JFC has been mistreated?