Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
because our manager called one of his players a cry baby?
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Gus Poyet - right or wrong?
- Thread starter Richard Hebberd's Syrup
- Start date
because our manager called one of his players a cry baby?
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Says the closet Man U fan.
TWOCHOICEStom
Well-known member
He's not exactly getting his point across very well though is he?
gripper stebson
Well-known member
- Jul 27, 2004
- 6,690
How would someone thinking 'negativly' about oral sex make them a racist. Actually don't answer that.
Common as Mook
Not Posh as Fook
- Jul 26, 2004
- 5,642
I've been biting my tongue all morning. Thank you.
This is an issue that transcends club rivalry.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
No he's a complete tw*t, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have loads of them on here throughout the day.
For what it's worth, my views (apologies for typos):
I read this like "kids are too soft these days, in my day...". He's essentially looking at how much he had to put up with over 7 years, and knew nothing would be done, how hard he had it, and now he sees Evra running to authorities over a little name calling.
I can see where he's coming from, but he is wrong. Maybe 15 years ago Evra wouldn't have gone to the authorities, but it's not 15 years ago, and the English FA are taking efforts to get racism out of football, and people have to come forward for any potentially racist incident, so that we can sooner find the line between banter and abuse, acceptable and unacceptable.
Right, we can't expect people who have different ideas of racism to just flip a switch and adapt to our standards. We have to accept that it may take time for people coming to us to get used to our standards, and understand that their standards are different and that they aren't necessarily being racist just because of the culture we've grown up in.
May be wrong specifically about Suarez, I don't know his travel arrangements.
I guess what he is trying to say here is, if you are treating someone as an individual, how can it be racist, doesn't racism involve prejudices against a race?
While there is a certain superficial logic to that, if the comments you make about an individual is about his race, colour or nationality, you're not really treating him as an individual, but as that race, colour or nationality. So would say he was wrong about this.
Few more points I;ve noticed in the thread:
-Using the word 'black' as racist
I think I discussed this with the commander in a previous john terry thread, but I saw this article linked in the argus comments section and think that john barnes explains it well:
Former Liverpool star John Barnes says society is to blame for racism problem that football just can't shift - Telegraph
-"Negrito" as a term of endearment to a rival
Why would he use a term of endearment for an opponent? I don't remember the match in great detail, but if Evra was keeping a handle of Suarez, perhaps it was a comment of frustrated respect. I know when I've played I've used terms of endearment when people have stifled my play.
Maybe he meant it in a patronising (though not racist) way if he was beating him regularly.
-Guilty because he's charged
Suarez being charged doesn't mean he is guilty, or that the FA know more. It could just be the FA being political; wanting to be seen taking action, either so that they can keep promoting the kick it out campaign, or from a more cynical point of view because they want to be able to dismiss the terry one and not seem like they are dismissing racism. "We thought there was with suarez so we pursued it, we thought there wasn't with terry so we dropped it" would be an easier sell than dropping both when they want to be seen taking action. Continuing the cynical streak, because it keeps man utd on side?
Question:
Has it actually been confirmed he said 'negrito'? I know it was put forward as a possible explanation, but I have no idea if that was by Suarez or just people hypothesising?
Nothing bad there. I'd say it's right, you can't when it's "he said, she said" take one person's word over the other to take action.
I read this like "kids are too soft these days, in my day...". He's essentially looking at how much he had to put up with over 7 years, and knew nothing would be done, how hard he had it, and now he sees Evra running to authorities over a little name calling.
I can see where he's coming from, but he is wrong. Maybe 15 years ago Evra wouldn't have gone to the authorities, but it's not 15 years ago, and the English FA are taking efforts to get racism out of football, and people have to come forward for any potentially racist incident, so that we can sooner find the line between banter and abuse, acceptable and unacceptable.
Right, we can't expect people who have different ideas of racism to just flip a switch and adapt to our standards. We have to accept that it may take time for people coming to us to get used to our standards, and understand that their standards are different and that they aren't necessarily being racist just because of the culture we've grown up in.
May be wrong specifically about Suarez, I don't know his travel arrangements.
I guess what he is trying to say here is, if you are treating someone as an individual, how can it be racist, doesn't racism involve prejudices against a race?
While there is a certain superficial logic to that, if the comments you make about an individual is about his race, colour or nationality, you're not really treating him as an individual, but as that race, colour or nationality. So would say he was wrong about this.
Few more points I;ve noticed in the thread:
-Using the word 'black' as racist
I think I discussed this with the commander in a previous john terry thread, but I saw this article linked in the argus comments section and think that john barnes explains it well:
Former Liverpool star John Barnes says society is to blame for racism problem that football just can't shift - Telegraph
-"Negrito" as a term of endearment to a rival
Why would he use a term of endearment for an opponent? I don't remember the match in great detail, but if Evra was keeping a handle of Suarez, perhaps it was a comment of frustrated respect. I know when I've played I've used terms of endearment when people have stifled my play.
Maybe he meant it in a patronising (though not racist) way if he was beating him regularly.
-Guilty because he's charged
Suarez being charged doesn't mean he is guilty, or that the FA know more. It could just be the FA being political; wanting to be seen taking action, either so that they can keep promoting the kick it out campaign, or from a more cynical point of view because they want to be able to dismiss the terry one and not seem like they are dismissing racism. "We thought there was with suarez so we pursued it, we thought there wasn't with terry so we dropped it" would be an easier sell than dropping both when they want to be seen taking action. Continuing the cynical streak, because it keeps man utd on side?
Question:
Has it actually been confirmed he said 'negrito'? I know it was put forward as a possible explanation, but I have no idea if that was by Suarez or just people hypothesising?
Last edited:
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Indeed. But things get complicated when abuse is delivered in a foreign language, particularly when it's a colloquialism from another culture.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
I know but we've got Man U fans on NSC and I couldn't help myself. It's almost Pavlovian. FWIW, and I've already said, Gus's comments are bang out of order.
Originunknown
BINFEST'ING
I do love the way Gus puts his foot in it. Entertaining even if inappropriate.
Media quoting out of context is the worst, really skews the point he originally intended to make.
United can f*** off still..
Media quoting out of context is the worst, really skews the point he originally intended to make.
United can f*** off still..
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Racism, or Man U?
gripper stebson
Well-known member
- Jul 27, 2004
- 6,690
All the furore this morning has made me ponder one big question.
Is Rosa Parks on the Gus Bus?
Is Rosa Parks on the Gus Bus?
manutd_gone_wild
New member
- Nov 18, 2011
- 30
funny how u think of OOTs as "less valued" supporters. No wonder you're club is where it is 
I may be considered as OOT but both my parents are locals and I was infact born there.
I may be considered as OOT but both my parents are locals and I was infact born there.
Common as Mook
Not Posh as Fook
- Jul 26, 2004
- 5,642
TWOCHOICEStom
Well-known member
Just a quick point. What a picture this is to use on a racism row article. Genuis.
Gus Poyet prepared for court to prove Luis Suarez is no racist | Mail Online
Gus Poyet prepared for court to prove Luis Suarez is no racist | Mail Online
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Well basically, you and CaM believe anyone that doesn't hate Man U must be a fan. Water off a ducks back to me, but it's a bit playground.
South Coast Eagle
New member
- Oct 2, 2009
- 273
Not good publicity for Brighton or Gus.
Now the question I ask myself is what would I think if Dougie had said something along a similar line. Would I defend him to the hilt or not. Quite frankly I'd be embarrased by the comments & would think that he should not have commented on an ongoing investigation.
Stating that Gus was 'defending his friend' as many on here have, would you defend your friend if he *alledgedly* racially abused someone in a night club, you weren't there, but took his word for it regardless?
I'm not going to slag Gus off however he was ill advised to comment & the PR department at Brighton were extremely naive to allow this to happen. This is going to get interesting over the next few days.
Oh, and to the Man Utd fan calling Gus scum a few pages back, nice input & well thought out & here's to Palace beating your plastic club in a couple of weeks time. Fool.
Now the question I ask myself is what would I think if Dougie had said something along a similar line. Would I defend him to the hilt or not. Quite frankly I'd be embarrased by the comments & would think that he should not have commented on an ongoing investigation.
Stating that Gus was 'defending his friend' as many on here have, would you defend your friend if he *alledgedly* racially abused someone in a night club, you weren't there, but took his word for it regardless?
I'm not going to slag Gus off however he was ill advised to comment & the PR department at Brighton were extremely naive to allow this to happen. This is going to get interesting over the next few days.
Oh, and to the Man Utd fan calling Gus scum a few pages back, nice input & well thought out & here's to Palace beating your plastic club in a couple of weeks time. Fool.
Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,033
Anyone who speaks a foreign language can see the crux of this case is going to be about nuance. If Suarez called Evra 'Negrito' as seems to be generally accepted, that has nowhere near the same strength as say '******', or even 'negro' over here.
But that is a separate issue, Gus has allowed people to portray him as not taking racism seriously enough which is a big shame because some of the points he made were sensible.
But that is a separate issue, Gus has allowed people to portray him as not taking racism seriously enough which is a big shame because some of the points he made were sensible.