Green party!! parking law abiding citizens £20 , gypsy free loaders nothing

[Geriatric Seagull]

It's all very well you talking about buses but that doesn't tell me where me and my mates can park our caravans for nothing?

 

[LadySeagull]

It's all very well you talking about buses but that doesn't tell me where me and my mates can park our caravans for nothing?

Selhurst Park Supermarket car park? There's always space there I'm told!

 

[Super Steve Earle]

My Area Manager came down to Brighton for a short meeting last week. She thought I should base in the town centre and drive in and out to see customers. She was charged£18 in the Church St car park. I think she now sees why I don't want to be there and why my customers won't want to come in to see me.

 

[Timbo]

Couldn't believe how many spaces there were from hove lawns to the pier today, saw loads of people park, go to the meter and then get back in the car again! Surely it would be better to have them full up with people paying a sensible rate. Take some pressure off the ncps as well as you had a half hour wait to get into any of them about 12 o clock today.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Remember?

And that is generally the case for the city area. If there are exceptions, the bus company don't promote them on their website, or in their timetable publication.

Brighton Hove Bus and Coach Company

 

[Westdene Seagull]

That The Green Party allow pikeys to park where they like. Total bollocks.

It was a Conservative councillor that was doing that, and quite rightly got censured for it.

The Greens, like all the other parties, have to spend public money shifting them.

With all due respect, you're doing exactly what you accused the OP of.

The Green Party have been far slower at moving travellers on than either Labour or the Conservatives were. Two sites spring to mind that took an age for them to deal with - Hangleton Park and the site just of the Dyke Roundabout ( at which they were camped for months ).

I'm assuming the Conservative councillor you are talking about was Dawn Barnett - in which case your statement isn't true. She didn't allow them to park anywhere they liked - she tried to persuade those that camped up in Hangleton that they should move elsewhere - namely wards that elected Green councillors. Fine by me - it's the fact she tries to stand up for her residents that attracted me to use one of my three votes to vote for her last local election.

Agree with your last statement and it's exactly why the council ( of whatever colour ) should move them on immediately before it gets more difficult, and more expensive, to move them and more rubbish is dumped.

 

[The Large One]

With all due respect, you're doing exactly what you accused the OP of.

The Green Party have been far slower at moving travellers on than either Labour or the Conservatives were. Two sites spring to mind that took an age for them to deal with - Hangleton Park and the site just of the Dyke Roundabout ( at which they were camped for months ).

I'm assuming the Conservative councillor you are talking about was Dawn Barnett - in which case your statement isn't true. She didn't allow them to park anywhere they liked - she tried to persuade those that camped up in Hangleton that they should move elsewhere - namely wards that elected Green councillors. Fine by me - it's the fact she tries to stand up for her residents that attracted me to use one of my three votes to vote for her last local election.

Agree with your last statement and it's exactly why the council ( of whatever colour ) should move them on immediately before it gets more difficult, and more expensive, to move them and more rubbish is dumped.

And that is illegal - hence the censure.

 

[The Large One]

Based on what you told me on the previous thread regarding bus travel that was proved to be a blatant lie or your complete lack of knowledge on bus fares (For which you never responded,I assumed as you were too embarrassed to reply)


I regrettably cannot trust anything you say regarding bus travel. Sorry.

Oh grow up.

You're actively looking to take the most expensive bus journeys to prove a point. The only ones who lose out are you and your family. Don't blame everyone else for that.

 

[andybaha]

I don't know how anyone can try to defend the increases in parking charges. The fact is that Brighton's economy relies on visitors to the town and a significant number of them want to drive here.

If they come for a day out that includes a bit of shopping, a meal, a walk along the seafront and a wander on the pier and then get charged £25 parking when they get back to the car many of them won't come again. They will also tell all their friends not to bother with Brighton. This means lost business for the shops, restaurants, the pier and the donut and ice cream sellers etc.

I have all day business in Brighton a couple of days a month and it now costs me £25 to park. I don't spend much in Brighton on these days just a newspaper, a coffee and a sandwich but then so do the dozen other people that are part of the meeting. Sometimes if our meeting finishes early I have a look round Churchill Square and buy a CD or two in HMV. I've seen some of the ladies come back from lunch with a pair of shoes etc they have bought. Because of the parking charges we are looking for a venue outside of Brighton. It may all sound trivial but if this pattern is repeated on a big enough scale then the economy of the town will suffer. Yes, the air will be cleaner but the shops wil be emptier too.

It is crazy to call visitors that have the audacity to want to park near the beach C****. If you are a stranger to a town you head straight into the centre. In a seaside town you head straight for the seafront. You simply don't know that if you park in London Road it's cheaper or that you need 20 £1 coins to be able to park. Making life as difficult as possible for visitors will simply scare them off.

Incidently you may be interested to know that the councilors get free parking in the Town Hall car park.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Bit of a non debate this. Brighton elects the green party and then is surprised when anti driving agenda is installed and gypsies get treated well.

Next in...BNP is anti immigrant...UKIP gives the Frogs and Huns the skunk eye.

 

[Garage_Doors]

And that is generally the case for the city area. If there are exceptions, the bus company don't promote them on their website, or in their timetable publication.

Brighton Hove Bus and Coach Company

For someone who likes to give the impression they know a lot about the bus service I find a little hard to believe you didn't know.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Oh grow up.

You're actively looking to take the most expensive bus journeys to prove a point. The only ones who lose out are you and your family. Don't blame everyone else for that.

LB either lied or was not as knowledgeable about the bus service he actively likes to promote, once someone does this, then it difficult to believe any further comments on that subject from them.
It make you wonder what else they say on the matter is fact or fiction, that was my point.

I don't get your point that I'm only actively looking to take the most expensive bus journeys to prove a point?

I would only use the bus to go into the centre of Brighton because of the parking issues, this and only this is the reason for using one, if i was going to go anywhere else in Sussex I would use the car where there would not be parking issues.
In the Case for shopping, we now go to Eastbourne or Crawley, hence my money is now being spent out of Brighton where as before it was going back in the Brighton traders coffers, I can't be the only one no doing this am I? Hence why the businesses are saying they are losing trade as a result.

 

[Sam-]

Brighton has something along the lines of 6 million day visitors a year.
Makes parking a nightmare for residents as well as visitors. This is just another example of problems of tourism. However, when i'm home (Hove) compared to uni (Nottingham) i notice the buses are far more useful in Brighton and Hove. If a little pricey.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

For someone who likes to give the impression they know a lot about the bus service I find a little hard to believe you didn't know.

LB either lied or was not as knowledgeable about the bus service he actively likes to promote, once someone does this, then it difficult to believe any further comments on that subject from them.
It make you wonder what else they say on the matter is fact or fiction, that was my point.

Whilst I work in the bus industry (and have spent the best part of 35 years doing so - much of that time designing, specifying and commissioning bus services that require subsidy), I don't work for the Brighton & Hove Bus Company and never have done.

I don't therefore have access to all of the operational matters that are communicated within that organisation. It is certainly the case that staff at B&H Buses will have information about the company's services and fares that is not widely advertised. What you say was told to you seems to fall into that category. The fact that I didn't happen to know that little piece of unpublicised information doesn't mean to say that I go in for "blatant lies" or that I have a "complete lack of knowledge on bus fares".

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And that is illegal - hence the censure.

Maybe it is although I'd be interested to know what act of parliament makes it so.

My point was that you like to pick up any slight inconsistency or error people post on here ( even more so when it comes to the Green Party ). Yet what you posted was entirely incorrect but I guess that's because Councillor Barnett is a Tory so the same standards don't apply.

 

[halbpro]

No, the council doesn't set the rules. Bus services were deregulated by the Thatcher government in 1985 and the council was forced to sell its bus company. Free competition is allowed and has happened. Curiously, the low cost alternative, The Big Lemon, has more or less given up, because most people CHOSE to travel on B&H Buses on the route where the two companies were in competition. Frequency of service is what people want. And, to take advantage of this, regular passengers chose to buy Saver tickets from B&H, rather than cheap single fares from the low cost competitor.

Whilst people did chose to use B&H Buses it's not quite that simple. B&H Buses priced The Big Lemon out of the market by cutting the price on the 25 and the 23, the routes which directly competed with The Big Lemon's 42 (its main service at the time). Given that they only cut the prices on the route that had competition, The Big Lemon has called this an anti-competitive move (and I believe tried to make a legal challenge).

They now only run the 44 which goes so a set a Brighton University halls I think, a route B&H Buses don't run (or at least don't run directly).

So yes, people did chose the cheaper of the two services, but only because B&H Buses cut the prices and then brought them back up when The Big Lemon withdrew the route. To be fair to B&H you can still get a cheaper ticket if you only use the 25 all week, but it's not as cheap as when The Big Lemon was in service.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

In the Case for shopping, we now go to Eastbourne or Crawley, hence my money is now being spent out of Brighton where as before it was going back in the Brighton traders coffers, I can't be the only one no doing this am I? Hence why the businesses are saying they are losing trade as a result.

Whilst I can easily understand the argument that says it's quicker and more convenient to travel from suburban Brighton to Eastbourne by car than by public transport, what I find odd is when this translates into a straightforward assumption that such a journey is always CHEAPER than travelling by bus from suburban Brighton to central Brighton by bus. Once you've paid for the fuel (about £8 for the return trip) and parking in Eastbourne (typically £3 for 2 hours), it's certainly more expensive for two adults (or two adults, plus kids) to take the car to Eastbourne.

The basic argument comes down to convenience, not price. I'll certainly concede, though, that - if you choose the wrong car park in Brighton - you can end up paying more for a car trip + parking in Brighton than a car trip + parking in Eastbourne.

But I can't spend all day arguing about this. I'm about to set off for an afternoon spending money in Brighton. We're going by public transport, because it's cheaper and more convenient.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Whilst people did chose to use B&H Buses it's not quite that simple. B&H Buses priced The Big Lemon out of the market by cutting the price on the 25 and the 23, the routes which directly competed with The Big Lemon's 42 (its main service at the time). Given that they only cut the prices on the route that had competition, The Big Lemon has called this an anti-competitive move (and I believe tried to make a legal challenge).

They now only run the 44 which goes so a set a Brighton University halls I think, a route B&H Buses don't run (or at least don't run directly).

So yes, people did chose the cheaper of the two services, but only because B&H Buses cut the prices and then brought them back up when The Big Lemon withdrew the route. To be fair to B&H you can still get a cheaper ticket if you only use the 25 all week, but it's not as cheap as when The Big Lemon was in service.

I don't particularly want to get into a big argument about the details of the spat between The Big Lemon and B&H Buses (partly because Tom Druitt of the Lemon is someone I know quite well).

As you say, it's not quite that simple. The Big Lemon is able to run buses along Lewes Road, because bus services are deregulated and competition is encouraged. One of the consequences of competition in any market place is that pricing of rival products gets keener. When The Big Lemon ran services along the full length of the Lewes Road, they were unable to serve the level of demand at busy times. Crowded buses used to leave passengers behind. B&H Buses have invested in greater capacity and now provide enough seats for those who want to travel. Fares on the 25 are still lower than fares on other routes in the city, to reflect the high use of the service and the particular characteristics of the student travel market. Fundamentally, the "legal challenge" doesn't stack up. B&H Buses were charging the market rate - pretty much the same as their competitor. To make a successful legal challenge, you have to demonstrate predatory pricing. The Big Lemon have argued the case, but I don't think they have proved it.

 

[halbpro]

I don't particularly want to get into a big argument about the details of the spat between The Big Lemon and B&H Buses (partly because Tom Druitt of the Lemon is someone I know quite well).

As you say, it's not quite that simple. The Big Lemon is able to run buses along Lewes Road, because bus services are deregulated and competition is encouraged. One of the consequences of competition in any market place is that pricing of rival products gets keener. When The Big Lemon ran services along the full length of the Lewes Road, they were unable to serve the level of demand at busy times. Crowded buses used to leave passengers behind. B&H Buses have invested in greater capacity and now provide enough seats for those who want to travel. Fares on the 25 are still lower than fares on other routes in the city, to reflect the high use of the service and the particular characteristics of the student travel market. Fundamentally, the "legal challenge" doesn't stack up. B&H Buses were charging the market rate - pretty much the same as their competitor. To make a successful legal challenge, you have to demonstrate predatory pricing. The Big Lemon have argued the case, but I don't think they have proved it.

No I wasn't looking for an argument either, I don't really have a stance on who was right and wrong (or if there was a right and wrong) in this case.

You're right on the capacity issue, although in my experience there was a point where it was the other way (25 over crowded and actually able to get onto The Big Lemon). And whilst the fares are still lower, I do believe they've risen since The Big Lemon stopped running the route. I think it was £8 for a week when The Big Lemon was in service and went up to £10 when they had to cut the service. I think this price increase was also outside of the general price increases from B&H Buses, but I may well be wrong on this aspect of it.

As you say it would be very difficult for The Big Lemon to prove any anti-competitive pricing, indeed B&H can easily argue that they pricing competitively to stop a rival pinching customers. They were probably, in my opinion, right on the line of predatory pricing. However, as things actually unfolded they were well within their rights to alter pricing in response to a competitor.

Like I said, no real right and wrong in the case and you're quite right that it wasn't simply a pricing issue. Personally I think it's a shame that the main Lemon service went away but, on the other hand, I didn't use it enough to feel hard done by.

 

[looney]

According to LB we ceased to be a tourist resort back in the 60's

Well I would like to see some stas for that. It may be a case that direct income may be higher but I'm betting on that being swamped by the derived demand from tourism with 6 million ?visitors. I am also betting that income from foreign students packs a big punch who although are not tourists as such are trANSITORY visitors.