Green Council Members - Need to take a basic Maths course

[LadySeagull]

The suggestion of limiting all cars in every road in Brighton to 20mph is the idea of a moron. Taxis as well? MAD.

But I am guessing they will make their beloved buses exempt and still let them sail along at speed in their (often dangerous to pedestrians) bus lanes?

 

[tedebear]

I get that 30mph to 20mph makes a 50% increase in travel time (in theory, though as others have pointed out junctions and lights etc affect journey time and should be taken into consideration).

But how does making traffic slower increase it? If 100 people drive to work at 30mph, they don't become 150 people just because it's slower. It's still 100 people. The traffic doesn't increase.

My only guess would be that as everyone is going slower there are more cars in the space than there were if they travelled through it quicker....not sure how they calculate these things. Can't possibly think that because they want to lower the limit that would attract more people on the road

I do wish Brighton would have a look at the roads though, and be realistic about it - people want to drive - they will never stop that unless it is priced out of the normal persons reach. They need to wake up to that. Frankly some of the newer cars on the market have such efficient engines that the 9 people in a bus (average capacity) argument outweighs the car argument as the bus becomes the worst for the environment than the car does.

 

[Earth Rod]

Thanks for that comment LadySeagull. I was beginning to feel that I was the only one who thought this idea was insane.

 

[The Large One]

The suggestion of limiting all cars in every road in Brighton to 20mph is the idea of a moron. Taxis as well? MAD.

But I am guessing they will make their beloved buses exempt and still let them sail along at speed in their (often dangerous to pedestrians) bus lanes?

Your point would be valid if what you're talking about was being proposed.

But it's not.

Thanks for that comment LadySeagull. I was beginning to feel that I was the only one who thought this idea was insane.

You've been told already that you've got this wrong.

 

[albion534]

the police have said they wont enforce the 20 m.p.h spped limit, so the council will have to do it on eveyroad...which basically means speed bumps everywhere

 

[teaboy]

MOST people will obey the speed limits. They are generally self-enforcing - you can't overtake moving traffic safely in most towns so travel at the speed of the person in front.

 

[ofco8]

Your point would be valid if what you're talking about was being proposed.

But it's not.



You've been told already that you've got this wrong.

I read Roger French was happy with 20mph but not if it applied to bus routes.

Double standards or what?

 

[The Large One]

I read Roger French was happy with 20mph but not if it applied to bus routes.

Double standards or what?

20mph round where you are, for instance, is plenty, isn't it? It's like a slalom course in your street. Are you on a bus route - I can't remember?

It's true he'd have to consider bus timetables, but I'd be curious as to which buses would be affected on those residential streets that would be brought into this scheme.

 

[KNC]

Transport - policies in detail


Encourage walking and cycling for shorter journeys and improve road safety:

• Reduce speed limits (e.g. to 20mph in built-up areas, including villages).
• Make streets safe; make them public spaces again. Plan for mixed-use developments where shops, housing and businesses are
closely located and connected by pavements and cycleways.
• Introduce schemes such as Home Zones, Safe Routes to School and pedestrianisation.
• Ensure that at least 10% of transport spending is on securing a shift to more active travel like walking and cycling.
• Reallocate the £30 billion the Government has earmarked for road-building over the next 10 years. Spend the money on a programme of investment in public transport over the Parliament.
• Provide affordable, cheaper local transport that is accessible to those with disabilities by investing in buses and subsidising some routes.

Make public transport public:

• Reregulate bus services nationally.
• Assist businesses with green workplace travel plans.
• Give higher priority to railways and plan for a growing railway network.
• Open additional stations on existing routes.
• Invest in new Light Rapid Transit systems (using appropriate technologies).
• Simplify fares for all public transport, with discounted fares for off-peak journeys and for those with low incomes.
• Support free local transport for pensioners.
• Return the railways, tube system and other light railway systems, including both track and operations, to public ownership.
• Support in principle a new north–south high-speed line, which would reduce the number of short-haul flights within the UK.

Make the cost of private cars more effectively mirror their environmental cost to wider society:

• Abolish car tax and replace it with a purchase tax on new cars that reflects their emissions. That way we would affect the types of car chosen at the time that matters, when they are bought new.
• Prioritise public transport, then if necessary work towards the introduction of road pricing schemes like the London congestion charge.

Reduce heavy freight and shift it from the roads to the railways:

• Reduce the demand for freight transport by localising the economy.
• Expand the rail freight network and make greater use of waterways, where suitable.
• Safeguard land adjacent to railways for use in freight distribution projects.
• Introduce road user tolls for heavy lorries.

Reduce air travel:

• Introduce taxation on aviation that reflects its full environmental costs. Failure to tax aviation fuel, and choosing not to levy VAT on tickets and aircraft, amounts to a subsidy worth around £10bn every year in the UK alone.
• Stop airport expansion and shift shorter air journeys to the railways (45% of all air trips in the EU are under 500Km).

Yeah, sorry, the 55mph on motorways was in the 2010 manifesto.

 

[ofco8]

20mph round where you are, for instance, is plenty, isn't it? It's like a slalom course in your street. Are you on a bus route - I can't remember?

It's true he'd have to consider bus timetables, but I'd be curious as to which buses would be affected on those residential streets that would be brought into this scheme.

Yes, Green Ridge would be 20mph then I would go onto 30mph in Valley Drive, then back to 20mph when I visit family in Hove Park area etc.. Very confusing having to keep track of every speed change.
Also, why wouldn't buses injure kids on bus routes at 30mph but cars would?

 

[The Large One]

Yes, Green Ridge would be 20mph then I would go onto 30mph in Valley Drive, then back to 20mph when I visit family in Hove Park area etc.. Very confusing having to keep track of every speed change.
Also, why wouldn't buses injure kids on bus routes at 30mph but cars would?

Dunno. I don't see why buses shouldn't go at 20mph in a 20mph zone.

I would guess that the 20s and 30s roads would be split by width of road and/or blind corners - a bit subjective, but that's where the consultations might throw up some answers.

 

[albion534]

Of course buses are to be excempt from the rules, thats the whole point of this, they and cyclists can do what they like because they are better forms of transport for the city, i myself with never cycle, or get a bus, due to the fact im not cycling up elm grove to work, and buses take too long, and they usually have at least 1 moron on there who i would like to punch

the limit could be 10 m.p.h everywhere, and i would still drive

 

[Badger]

I see the public are now getting consulted on this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-18606136

Public consultation on Brighton's 20mph city-wide road plan

Plans to introduce 20mph speed limits in most residential and shopping streets in Brighton and Hove have been put out to public consultation.

The council, which is led by the Green Party, wants a phased introduction of a new lower speed limit across the city over the next three years.

It said the proposal would create a safer environment, reduce air pollution and encourage sustainable transport.

It follows two pilot schemes around schools in Brighton and Portslade.

Most major roads and arterial routes such as the A259 seafront road and the Old Shoreham Road are not included in the proposals and will continue to have 30mph limits.

The council is sending 10,000 questionnaires to homes and businesses across the city, selected at random, to invite people to give their views.

In addition, anyone interested can complete the questionnaire on the council's website, or obtain a copy from Brighton Town Hall or Hove Town Hall, where exhibitions will also be held next month.

The closing date of the consultation is 10 August, with the results to be considered by the council's transport committee later this year.

If approved, the administration plans to spend about £1.5m on the scheme, which would take about four years to fully implement.




I personally think there are more important things to spend £1.5m on at the moment.

 

[albion534]

I see the public are now getting consulted on this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-18606136

Public consultation on Brighton's 20mph city-wide road plan

Plans to introduce 20mph speed limits in most residential and shopping streets in Brighton and Hove have been put out to public consultation.

The council, which is led by the Green Party, wants a phased introduction of a new lower speed limit across the city over the next three years.

It said the proposal would create a safer environment, reduce air pollution and encourage sustainable transport.

It follows two pilot schemes around schools in Brighton and Portslade.

Most major roads and arterial routes such as the A259 seafront road and the Old Shoreham Road are not included in the proposals and will continue to have 30mph limits.

The council is sending 10,000 questionnaires to homes and businesses across the city, selected at random, to invite people to give their views.

In addition, anyone interested can complete the questionnaire on the council's website, or obtain a copy from Brighton Town Hall or Hove Town Hall, where exhibitions will also be held next month.

The closing date of the consultation is 10 August, with the results to be considered by the council's transport committee later this year.

If approved, the administration plans to spend about £1.5m on the scheme, which would take about four years to fully implement.




I personally think there are more important things to spend £1.5m on at the moment.

I think we should spend 1.5 mil on a campaign to get the greens out??

 

[Badger]

I think we should spend 1.5 mil on a campaign to get the greens out??

Maybe they could spend it on a big barrier at the top of the A23 with a sign saying "Cyclists Only".

 

[albion534]

Maybe they could spend it on a big barrier at the top of the A23 with a sign saying "Cyclists Only".

And in small letters

Cars will be stoned on sight

 

[Seagull58]

I get that 30mph to 20mph makes a 50% increase in travel time (in theory, though as others have pointed out junctions and lights etc affect journey time and should be taken into consideration).

But how does making traffic slower increase it? If 100 people drive to work at 30mph, they don't become 150 people just because it's slower. It's still 100 people. The traffic doesn't increase.

The average volume of traffic on the roads increases by 50% if they all drive 33% slower. That is what is meant by the traffic increasing. The total number of cars on the road during the course of the day is the same but the average number of cars on the road at any time is 50% higher.

 

[Albumen]

Yay more wayward green bashing. Just what we need.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Yay more wayward green bashing. Just what we need.

Why is it wayward?

This is a bloody stupid and pointless idea in the first place, but now we know that it will cost a cool £1.5mil to implement I'd say it's bordering on a criminal waste of money.

 

[The Large One]

Why is it wayward?.

It's wayward because it's an idea all parties support in principle. The only reason it hasn't been done before is because the limits wouldn't be enforceable on every street.

This is a bloody stupid and pointless idea in the first place, but now we know that it will cost a cool £1.5mil to implement I'd say it's bordering on a criminal waste of money.

As a Brighton & Hove resident - and that's who this is for - I strongly disagree.

As this is part of a two-stage consultation process (something that was always going to be the case - much to the surprise of an earlier poster it seems), I would expect this to throw up some anomalies, and I would hope that where residents in a given area come out strongly against a 20mph zone in their area, that the council would listen to their concerns, and act accordingly.

However, around where I am - and this is the view of the local residents' group - a extension of a 20mph zone in the residential streets would be quite welcome.