Green Council Members - Need to take a basic Maths course

[Earth Rod]

If you travel at 20mph rather than 30mph it takes you 50% longer to complete your journey. Apply that to everybody and you have 50% more traffic on the road at any one time - CRAZY.

That is bad for pollution, bad for pedestrians, bad for cyclists, bad for business, bad for frustratiopn, road rage, everyones general health.

Evertime they reduce speed limits they effectively increase traffic on the roads and then respond to this by further reducing speed limits. Utter madness.

Have 20-mph on side roads. Actually it is difficult to drive even at 20mph on most roads. Who here has actully driven past a school in the morning at 20mph . I bet you will find you are doing no more than 10 or 15 mph. We are all pretty savvy about what constitutes a safe speed uinder any circumstance.

I do not need a council to tell me when I need to drive slowly any more than when I need to clean my teeth.

Have 20mph zones by all means on residential streets but compensate by getting the main arteries flowing at 40 or 50 . People are more likely to respond to lower speed limits in dangerous areas if they know they can get a move on on speed safe sections of main arterial roads .

I always pity the poor things that come to Brighton for a day , get to Patcham from London in an hour and then spend two hours in polluting traffic before they get anywhere near the coast. Polluting us as well I might add.

LEARN YOUR BASIC MATHS GREENS- Reduce pollution,increase safety overall, give the residents of the city the respect they deserve - INCREASE THE ARTERIAL ROADS TO 40mph and protect pedestrians and cyclists in so doing. It is just COMMON SENSE and BASIC MATHS.

Rant over (nearly).
Has any body who has been caught speeding in a area where it was safe to do so ever tried expaining to a police officer that you were trying to improve traffic flow, safety, and reduce pollution ?

 

[Stoo82]

Not only that, but you spend more time looking at your speedomiter than looking at the roads.

 

[drew]

If you travel at 20mph rather than 30mph it takes you 50% longer to complete your journey. Apply that to everybody and you have 50% more traffic on the road at any one time - CRAZY.

That is bad for pollution, bad for pedestrians, bad for cyclists, bad for business, bad for frustratiopn, road rage, everyones general health.

Evertime they reduce speed limits they effectively increase traffic on the roads and then respond to this by further reducing speed limits. Utter madness.

Have 20-mph on side roads. Actually it is difficult to drive even at 20mph on most roads. Who here has actully driven past a school in the morning at 20mph . I bet you will find you are doing no more than 10 or 15 mph. We are all pretty savvy about what constitutes a safe speed uinder any circumstance.

I do not need a council to tell me when I need to drive slowly any more than when I need to clean my teeth. The problem being that when you don't clean your teeth, it doesn't put the lives of others at risk!!!

Have 20mph zones by all means on residential streets but compensate by getting the main arteries flowing at 40 or 50 . People are more likely to respond to lower speed limits in dangerous areas if they know they can get a move on on speed safe sections of main arterial roads . Out of interest, where do you consider the main arterial routes are in Brighton and which ones should be 40mph?

I always pity the poor things that come to Brighton for a day , get to Patcham from London in an hour and then spend two hours in polluting traffic before they get anywhere near the coast. Polluting us as well I might add.

LEARN YOUR BASIC MATHS GREENS- Reduce pollution,increase safety overall, give the residents of the city the respect they deserve - INCREASE THE ARTERIAL ROADS TO 40mph and protect pedestrians and cyclists in so doing. It is just COMMON SENSE and BASIC MATHS.

Rant over (nearly).
Has any body who has been caught speeding in a area where it was safe to do so ever tried expaining to a police officer that you were trying to improve traffic flow, safety, and reduce pollution ?

Not only that, but you spend more time looking at your speedomiter than looking at the roads.

Is that a serious comment?

 

[Earth Rod]

Yes a serious comment .
If someone is not capable of realising a safe speed under the circumstances and conditions be it 5mph or 30 mph then they should not be driving. You cannot place restrictions for every eventuality . I do not object to placing 20 mph on tight residentil rods but where is the sense in a blanket 20 mph . get the arterils moving - 40 or 50 mph . and reduce congestion.

 

[Stoo82]

Is that a serious comment?

Yes.

 

[The Large One]

If you travel at 20mph rather than 30mph it takes you 50% longer to complete your journey. Apply that to everybody and you have 50% more traffic on the road at any one time - CRAZY.

That is bad for pollution, bad for pedestrians, bad for cyclists, bad for business, bad for frustratiopn, road rage, everyones general health.

Evertime they reduce speed limits they effectively increase traffic on the roads and then respond to this by further reducing speed limits. Utter madness.

Have 20-mph on side roads. Actually it is difficult to drive even at 20mph on most roads. Who here has actully driven past a school in the morning at 20mph . I bet you will find you are doing no more than 10 or 15 mph. We are all pretty savvy about what constitutes a safe speed uinder any circumstance.

I do not need a council to tell me when I need to drive slowly any more than when I need to clean my teeth.

Have 20mph zones by all means on residential streets but compensate by getting the main arteries flowing at 40 or 50 . People are more likely to respond to lower speed limits in dangerous areas if they know they can get a move on on speed safe sections of main arterial roads .

I always pity the poor things that come to Brighton for a day , get to Patcham from London in an hour and then spend two hours in polluting traffic before they get anywhere near the coast. Polluting us as well I might add.

LEARN YOUR BASIC MATHS GREENS- Reduce pollution,increase safety overall, give the residents of the city the respect they deserve - INCREASE THE ARTERIAL ROADS TO 40mph and protect pedestrians and cyclists in so doing. It is just COMMON SENSE and BASIC MATHS.

Rant over (nearly).
Has any body who has been caught speeding in a area where it was safe to do so ever tried expaining to a police officer that you were trying to improve traffic flow, safety, and reduce pollution ?

I don't think I've ever seen a post more wrong.

 

[Poyetry In Motion]

I think 20 mph is perfectly acceptable if say, it's implemented outside schools and at dangerous junctions / stretches of road. Can't see a problem with that. If the lower speed prevents 1 person being hurt or injured, then that can only be a good thing, Shirley?

 

[beorhthelm]

while i dont like unnecessry low speed restrictions, that has to be the worst made, logically flawed case against. please, dont do this again.

 

[Franks Wild Years]

I don't think I've ever seen a post more wrong.

Quite extraordinary thought process going on there.

 

[drew]

Yes a serious comment .
If someone is not capable of realising a safe speed under the circumstances and conditions be it 5mph or 30 mph then they should not be driving. You cannot place restrictions for every eventuality . I do not object to placing 20 mph on tight residentil rods but where is the sense in a blanket 20 mph . get the arterils moving - 40 or 50 mph . and reduce congestion.

Fair enough but the point I was making is that why do you have to check you speedo in 20mph limits more than you would in a 30mph limit? As you say, there are people who can judge speed and adjust to the conditions but there are those that can't or those that choose to ignore them regardless. As for the arterial routes, where exactly are these. The bypass is 70 and should be used by anyone not stopping in Brighton and going east to west or vice versa. As for the coast road, surely no one is suggesting this should be 40/50 as it separates the beach from the town and unless there is going to be a host of new subways, the pedestrian crossings act as check on speeding. As for the A23, how far into Brighton should this be a 40 limit?

 

[beorhthelm]

I think 20 mph is perfectly acceptable if say, it's implemented outside schools and at dangerous junctions / stretches of road. Can't see a problem with that. If the lower speed prevents 1 person being hurt or injured, then that can only be a good thing, Shirley?

it might save a life, but probably wont avoid a serious injury as poor driving doesnt really stop at 20mph and there is a problem with people clock watching. many cars dont sit well at 20mph due to the gearing.

 

[KNC]

You do know the Groans want a 55 mph max on motorways, don't you?

 

[severnside gull]

More lunacy from the Council

when it was being discussed yeseterday the consensus appeared to be that safety prevails over the "comfort" of drivers. I really worry that anyone thinks that most drivers can be trusted to drive sensibly let alone safely.

 

[The Large One]

it might save a life, but probably wont avoid a serious injury as poor driving doesnt really stop at 20mph and there is a problem with people clock watching. many cars dont sit well at 20mph due to the gearing.

Unlikely to get out of second in many cases.

The point is, as it's unenforceable, some people who feel the know better are going to ignore it anyway. However, if it introduces a culture of naturally driving that bit slower in a busy residential street, then all the better. Some people seem to think that a 30mph driving limit means you have an obligation to drive at 30.

My suspicion is that, like with many things in life when something is due to change, the most hysterical will have their knee-jerk reactions, make the most noise and miss the point of the exercise. Then, when it's introduced, found to work OK, and everyone gets used to it, people will wonder what the fuss was about.

The Albion had to put up with that when they moved to Withdean and to Falmer.

 

[The Large One]

You do know the Groans want a 55 mph max on motorways, don't you?

Transport - policies in detail


Encourage walking and cycling for shorter journeys and improve road safety:

• Reduce speed limits (e.g. to 20mph in built-up areas, including villages).
• Make streets safe; make them public spaces again. Plan for mixed-use developments where shops, housing and businesses are
closely located and connected by pavements and cycleways.
• Introduce schemes such as Home Zones, Safe Routes to School and pedestrianisation.
• Ensure that at least 10% of transport spending is on securing a shift to more active travel like walking and cycling.
• Reallocate the £30 billion the Government has earmarked for road-building over the next 10 years. Spend the money on a programme of investment in public transport over the Parliament.
• Provide affordable, cheaper local transport that is accessible to those with disabilities by investing in buses and subsidising some routes.

Make public transport public:

• Reregulate bus services nationally.
• Assist businesses with green workplace travel plans.
• Give higher priority to railways and plan for a growing railway network.
• Open additional stations on existing routes.
• Invest in new Light Rapid Transit systems (using appropriate technologies).
• Simplify fares for all public transport, with discounted fares for off-peak journeys and for those with low incomes.
• Support free local transport for pensioners.
• Return the railways, tube system and other light railway systems, including both track and operations, to public ownership.
• Support in principle a new north–south high-speed line, which would reduce the number of short-haul flights within the UK.

Make the cost of private cars more effectively mirror their environmental cost to wider society:

• Abolish car tax and replace it with a purchase tax on new cars that reflects their emissions. That way we would affect the types of car chosen at the time that matters, when they are bought new.
• Prioritise public transport, then if necessary work towards the introduction of road pricing schemes like the London congestion charge.

Reduce heavy freight and shift it from the roads to the railways:

• Reduce the demand for freight transport by localising the economy.
• Expand the rail freight network and make greater use of waterways, where suitable.
• Safeguard land adjacent to railways for use in freight distribution projects.
• Introduce road user tolls for heavy lorries.

Reduce air travel:

• Introduce taxation on aviation that reflects its full environmental costs. Failure to tax aviation fuel, and choosing not to levy VAT on tickets and aircraft, amounts to a subsidy worth around £10bn every year in the UK alone.
• Stop airport expansion and shift shorter air journeys to the railways (45% of all air trips in the EU are under 500Km).

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

You know it makes sense! We'd all be so much better off travelling at 90 mph down London Road, through an improved 10-lane Old Steine Gyratory en route to the much-needed new Central Brighton Car Park (formerly Pavilion Lawns).

Eureka! Car productivity up, no pedestrians in sight– just a few idiots running for cover – meaning no need for all those stupid crossings and useless traffic lights. Cyclists? Don't get me started! Walking? Gyms? Just don't go there!

Next you'll be telling me we've got some sort of Green Council in Brighton. Or that I can't drive my car right into the Amex and park beside the pitch.

Clarkson was right. The whole country's been going downhill for years. Except it takes twice as long now, thanks to those bloody jobsworth commies with their suspension-ruining bloody speed bumps and... (cont'd A94)

 

[Uter]

If you travel at 20mph rather than 30mph it takes you 50% longer to complete your journey. Apply that to everybody and you have 50% more traffic on the road at any one time - CRAZY.

Your logic is fundamentally flawed. A typical urban journey time is determined primarily by waiting at junctions and crossings, turning, queuing in traffic etc. Lowering the speed limit, (even assuming everyone stuck to it) would not have a big impact on urban journey times. Certainly nowhere near the 50% you consider likely.

 

[tedebear]

Transport - policies in detail


Encourage walking and cycling for shorter journeys and improve road safety:

• Reduce speed limits (e.g. to 20mph in built-up areas, including villages).
• Make streets safe; make them public spaces again. Plan for mixed-use developments where shops, housing and businesses are
closely located and connected by pavements and cycleways.
• Introduce schemes such as Home Zones, Safe Routes to School and pedestrianisation.
• Ensure that at least 10% of transport spending is on securing a shift to more active travel like walking and cycling.
• Reallocate the £30 billion the Government has earmarked for road-building over the next 10 years. Spend the money on a programme of investment in public transport over the Parliament.
• Provide affordable, cheaper local transport that is accessible to those with disabilities by investing in buses and subsidising some routes.

Make public transport public:

• Reregulate bus services nationally.
• Assist businesses with green workplace travel plans.
• Give higher priority to railways and plan for a growing railway network.
• Open additional stations on existing routes.
• Invest in new Light Rapid Transit systems (using appropriate technologies).
• Simplify fares for all public transport, with discounted fares for off-peak journeys and for those with low incomes.
• Support free local transport for pensioners.
• Return the railways, tube system and other light railway systems, including both track and operations, to public ownership.
• Support in principle a new north–south high-speed line, which would reduce the number of short-haul flights within the UK.

Make the cost of private cars more effectively mirror their environmental cost to wider society:

• Abolish car tax and replace it with a purchase tax on new cars that reflects their emissions. That way we would affect the types of car chosen at the time that matters, when they are bought new.
• Prioritise public transport, then if necessary work towards the introduction of road pricing schemes like the London congestion charge.

Reduce heavy freight and shift it from the roads to the railways:

• Reduce the demand for freight transport by localising the economy.
• Expand the rail freight network and make greater use of waterways, where suitable.
• Safeguard land adjacent to railways for use in freight distribution projects.
• Introduce road user tolls for heavy lorries.

Reduce air travel:

• Introduce taxation on aviation that reflects its full environmental costs. Failure to tax aviation fuel, and choosing not to levy VAT on tickets and aircraft, amounts to a subsidy worth around £10bn every year in the UK alone.
• Stop airport expansion and shift shorter air journeys to the railways (45% of all air trips in the EU are under 500Km).

Is that the Greens transport policy? Some of that is actually quite good (quite like the purchase tax on cars but how would that work when most people buy second hand), some a little far fetched (localising the economy?)....

But nothing about 55 mph on motorways which is good, I'd suggest some propaganda at work on that one...

 

[Falkor]

What gets me with all these governments they want us to use public transport but then stick prices up a journey I took a week ago is now 60p more expensive not a great deal but it adds up also the service is not getting any better if anything it's going the other way. If these governments want us to be more green and use car less and public transport more then they need to look at cost and service they provide

 

[GreersElbow]

I'm sorry, but how does decreasing the maximum speed by 1/3 make things 50% slower? Everyone will be going at the same pace, I can't see this making journeys longer.