Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can you spot Greek Euro-notes from others though? The coins re different but what about the paper?

They're printed on shiny colour photocopy paper. Quite easy to pick out.

 

[dingodan]

I blame the Illuminati.

Finally someone around here who is AWAKE.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Agree.

I am really surprised by your lack of empathy for the Greek people.

I thought you considered yourself a socialist and a European. These are real people.

I'm sure when the banks lent billions to individuals who had no means of repaying the debt, you blamed the banks when they went belly up, and not those who took on unaffordable loans.

It's the same scenario now with Greeks, the Greeks were lent money by a whole variety of Countries and institutions they have no chance of repaying.

Sure they need massive reform, their public sector is hugely bloated, and their pensions unsustainable, they have lived beyond their means for too long, and tax evasion is rife throughout the whole society, but they have 50% youth unemployment, 25% overall unemployment and 30% now living below the poverty line.

The IMF have said their debt is unsustainable, the only way is debt relief, the question is how much, if any Mrs Merkel will accept.if she doesn't accept a hair cut, she may end up with nothing.

France/Italy v Germany/Finland. The great Euro project is falling apart.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I hope the whole of Europe now rises against Merkel, Cameron and the lot of them , time to show them people power

What has Cameron got to do with this E?! Bizarre.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The fact that the markets are only slightly down this morning tells you everything you need to know.

They either:

1. Underestimate the likelihood and effect of a Grexit.
2. Don't have a clue.
3. Don't care.

I suspect its a combination of 2&3. Greece is a basket case and an irrelevance. Its the knock on effect to Spain, Portugal and Italy we need to worry about

Priced in for this stage of the process

 

[Hampster Gull]

But Tsipras himself keeps saying that the EU can't force Greece out of the eurozone because that would be against the law (he doesn't say which law exactly), whilst at the same time he disregards financial rules and laws himself pretty much in the same way previous Greek governments have been in recent years. Greeks know very well that going back to drachma would mean bankruptcy of thousands of businesses, sky-high inflation and even higher unemployment, and that's why they want to stay in the eurozone. What they don't want to do is to pay back their debts or accept austerity measures, hence their gamble and the attempt to terrify Europe with "destabilisation" and "the fall of the European Project" in order to receive more and more bailout money. The best thing to do now would be to call their bluff and let them go bankrupt--in the long run it will be healthier for both the eurozone and Greece.

Good analysis and I agree with you. I suspect the euocrats will not be able to help themselves though in their attempts to prop up their agenda of a federal Europe

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

From the Wall Street Journal, back in January:

"ATHENS—Of all the challenges Greece has faced in recent years, prodding its citizens to pay their taxes has been one of the most difficult.

At the end of 2014, Greeks owed their government about €76 billion ($86 billion) in unpaid taxes accrued over decades, though mostly since 2009. The government says most of that has been lost to insolvency and only €9 billion can be recovered.

Billions more in taxes are owed on never-reported revenue from Greece’s vast underground economy, which was estimated before the crisis to equal more than a quarter of the country’s gross domestic product."

It occurs to me that if this is remotely correct, it may have relevance to the present situation. I look forward to the comment from any NSC resident economist or political scientist, better informed and trained in such matters, that will relieve me of my burden of ignorance.

 

[Hampster Gull]

From the Wall Street Journal, back in January:

"ATHENS—Of all the challenges Greece has faced in recent years, prodding its citizens to pay their taxes has been one of the most difficult.

At the end of 2014, Greeks owed their government about €76 billion ($86 billion) in unpaid taxes accrued over decades, though mostly since 2009. The government says most of that has been lost to insolvency and only €9 billion can be recovered.

Billions more in taxes are owed on never-reported revenue from Greece’s vast underground economy, which was estimated before the crisis to equal more than a quarter of the country’s gross domestic product."

It occurs to me that if this is remotely correct, it may have relevance to the present situation. I look forward to the comment from any NSC resident economist or political scientist, better informed and trained in such matters, that will relieve me of my burden of ignorance.

You are correct

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

BBC 1 now, panorama.

 

[Triggaaar]

I am really surprised by your lack of empathy for the Greek people.

I thought you considered yourself a socialist and a European. These are real people.

I too am surprised. Where is the left wing Herr Tub, now that other people need help?

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I too am surprised. Where is the left wing Herr Tub, now that other people need help?

Me too.

" I never dared to be a radical when young for fear it would make me a conservative when old". Robert Frost.

 

[TomandJerry]

Christine Lagarde spoke to Alexis Tsipras today, and explained that the International Monetary Fund can no longer provide money to Greece after it failed to repay €1.6bn last week.

Under IMF rules, once a country is in arrears, fresh funds cannot be supplied, a spokesman explained

 

[TomandJerry]

The European Central Bank has tightened the rules for giving emergency funding to Greek banks tonight. It is now imposing tougher haircuts on the assets they hand over, restricting their ability to access the funding.

The ECB also reportedly rejected a request for €3bn in extra ELA support

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Christine Lagarde spoke to Alexis Tsipras today, and explained that the International Monetary Fund can no longer provide money to Greece after it failed to repay €1.6bn last week.

Under IMF rules, once a country is in arrears, fresh funds cannot be supplied, a spokesman explained

And the Greek government hasn't known this all along?

 

[TomandJerry]

And the Greek government hasn't known this all along?

Nope

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Russia has no money to throw away at Greece.

pumped loads into MONTENEGRO
regards
DR

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am really surprised by your lack of empathy for the Greek people.

I thought you considered yourself a socialist and a European. These are real people.

Then you have only read selected posts. I have stated a number of times I have empathy with the Greek people and their situation. Of course I do. But the government and what seems like a significant number of the population have to take some responsibility for their actions. I'm certain help is available, but they will not get help all the time they piss around at the discussion table. They need to start acting seriously otherwise patience will finally snap with the 18 other eurozone countries. The way the Greek government have carried on is appalling. Do you think they've done a great job? Do you think they couldn't have done any better?

 

[Bry Nylon]

Then you have only read selected posts. I have stated a number of times I have empathy with the Greek people and their situation. Of course I do. But the government and what seems like a significant number of the population have to take some responsibility for their actions. I'm certain help is available, but they will not get help all the time they piss around at the discussion table. They need to start acting seriously otherwise patience will finally snap with the 18 other eurozone countries. The way the Greek government have carried on is appalling.

Text book 'nasty party' stuff there, Herr Tubthumper. Welcome to the side that recognises the both the concept and the value of personal responsibility

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I too am surprised. Where is the left wing Herr Tub, now that other people need help?

I agree they need help, but it doesn't mean I can't criticise some of the people who have made the crisis.

 

[Triggaaar]

I agree they need help, but it doesn't mean I can't criticise some of the people who have made the crisis.

I don't think there are many saying that the whole of Greece are innocent of the problem they now face, but you've been saying a lot more than that.

Have you also been very critical of Germany who helped make this crisis?