Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[Herr Tubthumper]

Text book 'nasty party' stuff there, Herr Tubthumper. Welcome to the side that recognises the both the concept and the value of personal responsibility

I have always recognised personal responsibility though. I am also sympathetic and understanding to the reasons for certain actions. But this does not mean I always overlook poor behaviour. Sometimes behaviour is simply poor period.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Have you also been very critical of Germany who helped make this crisis?

They're just one of the 19 eurozone countries, and the EU are just one of three lenders.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Nope

So the government of a country that was one of the founder members of the IMF in 1945 contends in 2015 that it didn't realise/understand (or whatever) one of the fundamental rules associated with borrowing money from the fund? Sorry but that's just not a credible position.

 

[Hampster Gull]

They're just one of the 19 eurozone countries, and the EU are just one of three lenders.

Germany are at the forefront of this policy, along with a couple of other countries hiding behind the ECB isnt great either. But they will be under pressure from Italy and France. Lets see, i expect a deal

 

[Triggaaar]

They're just one of the 19 eurozone countries, and the EU are just one of three lenders.

That's not what I asked.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

Some posters in this thread are apparently very concerned about Greek people--good on them! It is indeed uplifting to see such concern that fellow Europeans (even though they live in different ends of Europe) have for one another. That only strengthens my faith in humanity and proves that the famous British love of fair play is more than just a legend.

I also hope that the aforementioned kind-hearted good Samaritans can see that Grexit and reverting back to drachma is in the best interest of the Greek people that they worry about, and that to continue with the current "help" program, and keeping Greece in the eurozone at all cost, would be to condemn Greeks to generations of hopelessness, austerity and lack of perspectives.

After "Grexit"...

- Greek currency will immediately lose its value significantly
- this means that import will become much more costly and Greeks will start buying their own products
- production will rise and new jobs will be created
- Greek export will thrive
- tourism will enjoy an era of great prosperity, as tourist services will become much cheaper
- in all likelihood the money which Greeks transferred abroad will come back to Greece, as people will be able to buy
cheap property and operate businesses at much lower cost

... and that's just a couple of positive sides of Greece having their own currency. Of course, initially there will also be negative sides to it, but they will be temporary and after 2-3 years Greece should stand back on her feet just as many other countries that went bankrupt and decided to devaluate their currency in the past.

To help Greeks in the transition period the EU should subsidise imports of certain goods (medicines, farming machine parts, energy) to accellerate positive changes in Greek economy. That would be REAL HELP, not throwing billions and billions into an unreformed, corrupt system, which is a black hole in which any amount of money can disappear without significantly improving things for ordinary Greek people.

 

[nicko31]

If there is a debt deal it will just be a sticking plaster, we'll be back here in a year or two. Think the Germans have finally had enough though...

 

[TomandJerry]

According to sources in Brussels, 16 of the other 18 countries in the eurozone are in favor of letting Greece leave the eurozone and they will have to weigh up the cost of any agreement to keep Athens in the single currency.

 

[nicko31]

According to sources in Brussels, 16 of the other 18 countries in the eurozone are in favor of letting Greece leave the eurozone and they will have to weigh up the cost of any agreement to keep Athens in the single currency.

They will be better off leaving mid to long term, though it will hurt short term and they will be back to a 1970's 2nd world country.

Seems a long time ago they were hosting the Olympics and winning the Euro's

 

[Billy the Fish]

I also hope that the aforementioned kind-hearted good Samaritans can see that Grexit and reverting back to drachma is in the best interest of the Greek people that they worry about, and that to continue with the current "help" program, and keeping Greece in the eurozone at all cost, would be to condemn Greeks to generations of hopelessness, austerity and lack of perspectives.

After "Grexit"...

- Greek currency will immediately lose its value significantly
- this means that import will become much more costly and Greeks will start buying their own products
- production will rise and new jobs will be created
- Greek export will thrive
- tourism will enjoy an era of great prosperity, as tourist services will become much cheaper
- in all likelihood the money which Greeks transferred abroad will come back to Greece, as people will be able to buy
cheap property and operate businesses at much lower cost

... and that's just a couple of positive sides of Greece having their own currency. Of course, initially there will also be negative sides to it, but they will be temporary and after 2-3 years Greece should stand back on her feet just as many other countries that went bankrupt and decided to devaluate their currency in the past.

To help Greeks in the transition period the EU should subsidise imports of certain goods (medicines, farming machine parts, energy) to accellerate positive changes in Greek economy. That would be REAL HELP, not throwing billions and billions into an unreformed, corrupt system, which is a black hole in which any amount of money can disappear without significantly improving things for ordinary Greek people.

If it was that easy then surely they would've done it by now. The flip side is that after the banks go bankrupt their new currency will be worthless outside of Greece and the 50 billion worth of good that they import (a third of which is energy) will be unaffordable overnight.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

If it was that easy then surely they would've done it by now.

Easy? It will be far from easy--that's the point. Greeks got used to living way above their means, so the transition to drachma will be quite painful to them in the initial period; but it must be done in the best interest of Greece and Greek people. Nobody's saying it will be easy.

The flip side is that after the banks go bankrupt their new currency will be worthless outside of Greece and the 50 billion worth of good that they import (a third of which is energy) will be unaffordable overnight.

That's why the EU should subsidise vital Greek imports in the transition period (2-3 years). It will be less costly and more beneficial for Greece in the long run.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Some posters in this thread are apparently very concerned about Greek people--good on them! It is indeed uplifting to see such concern that fellow Europeans (even though they live in different ends of Europe) have for one another. That only strengthens my faith in humanity and proves that the famous British love of fair play is more than just a legend.

I also hope that the aforementioned kind-hearted good Samaritans can see that Grexit and reverting back to drachma is in the best interest of the Greek people that they worry about, and that to continue with the current "help" program, and keeping Greece in the eurozone at all cost, would be to condemn Greeks to generations of hopelessness, austerity and lack of perspectives.

After "Grexit"...

- Greek currency will immediately lose its value significantly
- this means that import will become much more costly and Greeks will start buying their own products
- production will rise and new jobs will be created
- Greek export will thrive
- tourism will enjoy an era of great prosperity, as tourist services will become much cheaper
- in all likelihood the money which Greeks transferred abroad will come back to Greece, as people will be able to buy
cheap property and operate businesses at much lower cost

... and that's just a couple of positive sides of Greece having their own currency. Of course, initially there will also be negative sides to it, but they will be temporary and after 2-3 years Greece should stand back on her feet just as many other countries that went bankrupt and decided to devaluate their currency in the past.

To help Greeks in the transition period the EU should subsidise imports of certain goods (medicines, farming machine parts, energy) to accellerate positive changes in Greek economy. That would be REAL HELP, not throwing billions and billions into an unreformed, corrupt system, which is a black hole in which any amount of money can disappear without significantly improving things for ordinary Greek people.

Greece imports over 50% of its wheat... the country would starve

 

[TomandJerry]

SPD leader Sigmar Gabriel has for the first time admitted that it was a mistake to allow Greece to join the euro zone. “The entry of Greece into the euro is carried out from today’s perspective, very naive,” Gabriel said in an interview with Stern. “Worse is that all have watched far too long” as the country fell deeper and deeper into crisis, added the Vice-Chancellor.

 

[TomandJerry]

"Greece’s proposals to the Eurogroup will be broadly similar to the plan which was rejected in the referendum"

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Greece imports over 50% of its wheat... the country would starve

Greeks never struck me particularly as great wheat eaters. Chicken and chips and Greek salad, certainly. Wheat? Not so much.

 

[Triggaaar]

Finance minister Yanis Varoufakis has told CNBC that Greece could reach a deal with its creditors within 24 hours, if Greeks vote No today.

So Greece voted No and they reached a deal with their creditors. What was the deal?

 

[TomandJerry]

So Greece voted No and they reached a deal with their creditors. What was the deal?

No Deal has been reached yet. Greece are submitted a new deal that is similar to the one they rejected

 

[Triggaaar]

No Deal has been reached yet. Greece are submitted a new deal that is similar to the one they rejected

How does that work? They play hard ball, say they won't accept the deal, show that they've got the backing of the people by letting the people also reject the deal, and then once the people have rejected it, go and do precisely what they said they wouldn't do and what the people don't want.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

What was it Robert Maxwell once said? Something along the lines of "If you owe the bank £1000 then it's your problem, but if you owe them £10,000,000 then it quickly becomes their problem"

 

[Guy Crouchback]

Greece imports over 50% of its wheat... the country would starve

Not very likely. High prices of imported food would force Greece to increase their own agricultural production (for which there is still huge potential), which would only be beneficial for their economy. Moreover, let's not imagine Greece turning into a 3rd world country after reverting to drachma--talking about starvation does seem a bit dramatic to be honest. Surely, less luxury goods would be imported, fewer tanks or submarines purchased by the Greek army, but there will always be money for food.