Great work from the coalition

[Bwian]

In which case it is the responsibility of the government to close the loopholes. If a loophole is there it will be used.

And we need to remember that these companies provide employment for large numbers of people. Drive them out of the UK and the jobs will follow them.

You're right, it is the responsibilty of government to close the loopholes-one must ask why they don't?

As for driving them out of the country, that argument is bandied about by a number of people and frankly, it's a nonsense. Companies are not going to walk away from a lucrative marketplace because they are being made to pay their share of taxes. It annoys me that the scare tactics of jobs disappearing are rolled out regularly whenever it gets mentioned that companies should pay their taxes instead of sending their profits to tax havens. If a company leaves the UK for those reasons it's simple, don't let them trade here and there will always be somebody ready to fill the void. The added benefit of them paying their share of taxes would be the likes of you and me should pay less ourselves.

 

[Bwian]

So don't buy from Amazon, Apple, or Boots.

That's not the answer though, is it? They should simply all pay their taxes. Trade here, make profits here, pay your frigging taxes here. Do that and we'll all be better off.

 

[BadFish]

And well done to the Gov for putting an upper limit on the amount of our cash given to those not working.

There are too many work shy lazy lumps sitting around taken the piss out of those of us that pay our way.

TB

Starbucks?

 

[BadFish]

Of course you are aware that this money that the banking system borrowed, is being paid back to the government, with interest, as the banks recover performance. In the case of LBG, that I happen to know a bit about,.. the current forecast is that they would have paid all those billions back in 2-4 years from now.

....unlike of course, the billions paid out on benefits, often to those not entitled, or frittered away in well publicised wastage in the public sector. Not much of that is ever recouped is it.

And where will the banks get the money to pay back the money they borrowed from us? Oh yes from us. What a fantastic system. Maybe when they have paid us back they can use some more of our money to gamble irresponsibly with and live a high rolling lifestyle until............it all goes tits up again, they drag the world economy to the brink of collapse.............and ask us to bail them out again.

What about this 15 billion in tax fraud, does this get paid back too?

 

[Diego Napier]

It is expected that latest figures will show that the excellent work from our coalition government has turned the UK economy round and we are in growth territory once again.

Well done to all involved. (That doesn't include Milliband, Balls and the other loony lefts.)

I can only assume that you have started this thread to whip up some interest on a "slow news/lets up the number of posts" day as the alternative is that it's a wanky thread from a wanky poster.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Well done Bozza! that was the best fishing trip since Jesus set sail on The Sea Of Gallillee and cast his net on the other side of the boat.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fear not - I think the Labour rabble will be keeping very quiet after this latest triumph from our brave government.

These figures are a pure result of public sector spending....which is what Labour promote

 

[worthingseagull123]

It is expected that latest figures will show that the excellent work from our coalition government has turned the UK economy round and we are in growth territory once again.

Well done to all involved. (That doesn't include Milliband, Balls and the other loony lefts.)

Yes, well done for all those who are really struggling with no end in sight. Well done for all those that are having to go constantly without. Well done for the millions of unemployed or under-employed with no jobs available to them.

Well done for allowing University Students to leave with upward for 30k.

Well done. This coalition has got so much right.

 

[drew]

I think the gold was a minor error ( as you say hindsight is a lovely thing ). His raiding of pension pots and boldly claiming he'd brought an end to boom and bust show what a poor chancellor he really was.

Think the bursting of the dot.com bubble caused far more damage than the pension raid. Also, you forget about the pension holidays taken by some of the big companies during the 80s/90s when the money was rolling in. Take Unilever whose £680 million deficit in it's now defunct final salary scheme was due in the main to it's 7 year pension holiday during the 90s.

....as opposed to the champagne socialists who I suppose are allowed to post their archaic union ramblings

Don't say that ,its every man and woman's right to have six kids, live in a council house, claim housing benefits, smoke ,drink and enjoy sky tv..... isn't it?

I think you should stop posting as every utterance you make does you no credit. You seem to be a victim of spin and looks like you only ever read the headlines and never delve deeper.

Now I know you're taking the piss!!!

I must agree, I'm begining to think this myself.

When did Seb Coe move over to the dark/red side?

Or do you mean Beckham? I can't see him being a leftie.

But remember, Seb Coe could not have bid for the Olympics without the backing of a Labour government and that of a Labour Mayor!

Of course you are aware that this money that the banking system borrowed, is being paid back to the government, with interest, as the banks recover performance. In the case of LBG, that I happen to know a bit about,.. the current forecast is that they would have paid all those billions back in 2-4 years from now.

....unlike of course, the billions paid out on benefits, often to those not entitled, or frittered away in well publicised wastage in the public sector. Not much of that is ever recouped is it.

Not sure what you are arguing for there. You seem to imply we shouldn't have a public sector. Let's get rid of the NHS then, all welfare, the Police, the legislature, judiciary, prisons, education etc etc.

Of course, no argument there, mine was perhaps a simple statement on the futility of stereotypes in this type of debate,... the usual Tory Boy or Leftie comments don't help, but are inevitable on this forum.

Simple being the operative word!

I really don't care who people vote for but this kind of attitude really pisses me off !!!!! It's a moronic, braindead way of voting. At least take the effort to balance each parties policies etc and then make a decision rather than follow a party slavishly because "you always have".

I agree, you have to vote for what you consider is best for you. For some that is to put more money directly into their own pocket and for others it is to try and get a fairer society. I consider myself a socialist but have voted Tory, Lib Dem and Labour in the past. Over the years my attitudes and perceptions have changed.

It wasn't hindsight that told us that was a terrible mistake, he announced the sale and watched the price plummet and then made the sale. It was stupid beyond all measure.
It wasn't to his credit that the world was riding high, and in that time how much did we save, how much of our debt did we pay off? None, it was party time and he partied.

I have, and for that I apologise.

Check the figures, I think it has already been stated that when Labour came to power in 1997 the national debt was 42% of GDP but by 2008 it was down to 35%. The banking crisis that followed was not the fault of Brown and would have happened with or without him. The Tories can bang on about regulation but I've yet to see a statement from them dating to prior to the crisis outlining what extra regulation they would have imposed on the banks. The usual Tory mantra is of course for less regulation of markets rather than more!

Forget the politics for a moment.

Bottom line this is good news.

End of.

What! This is only about politics. Ask the Ford workers is this is good news!

Sorry but imho thats rubbish. There are large numbers of people who cannot be arsed to work, kids on a production line and expect everything for nothing. I believe those cretins are the ones who piss the workers off, not those who genuinely work but all be it on a minimal wage, personally, if someone on minimum wage gets support through benefits, there is no problem.

Round up all the unemployed people WHO DO NOT WANT TO WORK, not those who are unemployed and WANT to work. Prevent them having kids and becoming more burden on the economy. Anyone who works OR IS LOOKING FOR WORK should be allowed to have kids. James Whale said it once and I agree, a license to have Kids would be good. RSPCA come round to inspect a property before rehoming a dog but any Shantelle, Courtney or Tyrone can have 20 kids at a time.

You seem to know a lot. Can you provide a link to the statistics that show how many claimants do not want to work and please don't post a link to a 'mail online' headline. It doesn't count as a statistic.

That's a good one!

Here is a list of all the coalition's U-turns up to June of this year:

31 May 2012: charitable donations. In the 2012 budget, George Osborne, the chancellor, announced he would cap tax relief on charitable donations at £50,000 or 25% of income. This was greeted by protests from charities, which warned they could lose a significant proportion of their income and suggested the policy went against the principle of David Cameron's "big society". It was scrapped two months later.

30 May 2012: buzzards. The environment department had planned to destroy buzzards' nests to protect pheasant shoots. The proposal caused uproar among conservationists, who said the government itself admitted it was based only on anecdotal evidence.

28 May 2012: pasty tax. Also in the budget, Osborne announced plans to charge VAT on food designed to cool down, such as sausage rolls and pasties, prompting protests in Cornwall, claims that ministers were "out of touch", and embarrassing photo-opportunities and press conferences as politicians of all stripes rushed to prove they loved eating pasties and sausage rolls. The plan was scrapped two months later.

28 May 2012: caravan tax. The budget also levied VAT on static caravans. Again the government was accused of being out of touch with ordinary people, and was subject to fierce lobbying from the Caravan Club. Two months later the new VAT rate was cut from 20% to 5%.

28 May 2012: secret courts. A government green paper on keeping evidence from the security services secret was watered down following opposition from the deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg.

15 May 2012: Scottish independence referendum. Scottish Tories were furious after David Cameron said he was not "too fussy" about the date of the referendum – in effect disowning the previous Conservative line that a plebiscite must be held within two years.

9 May 2012: Joint Strike Fighter. The coalition had replaced Labour plans to buy a jump jet for the Royal Navy's new aircraft carriers, instead plumping for a "cats and traps" model that could catapult and recover a version of the Joint Strike Fighter. But the JSF model the coalition wanted became beset by delays and technical problems, meaning the government had to revert to Labour's plans.

5 May 2012: unannounced Ofsted inspections. The chief inspector of schools announced in January 2012 the introduction of no-notice inspections, but Michael Gove, the education secretary, backed down a few months later following protests from headteachers, and admitted there was a perception that Ofsted was becoming "an arm of the Spanish Inquisition".

21 March 2012: video games tax relief. In the March 2010 budget, Labour promised the same sort of tax relief for the video games industry that the film sector gets, but this was scrapped when the coalition came to power. Two years later Osborne changed his mind.

1 December 2011: Disability Living Allowance. The government announced plans in the 2010 spending review to cut the "mobility" part of DLA, worth £51 a week, for those in residential care, but after criticism that this was "callous" dropped the plans the following year.

23 November 2011: chief coroner. Kenneth Clarke, the justice secretary, scrapped plans to abolish the post of chief coroner after a year-long campaign to save the post by the Royal British Legion.

23 November 2011: Youth Justice Board. The board was supposed to be scrapped in the government's "bonfire of the quangos", but in the face of opposition ministers changed their minds.

17 November 2011: NHS waiting times. Andrew Lansley, the health secretary, had criticised waiting time targets as unnecessary and bureaucratic, but in the face of evidence that waiting times were creeping up he introduced a new rule to halt the growing number of patients not being treated within the 18 weeks guaranteed under the NHS constitution.

14 July 2011: coastguard centres. The government had planned to reduce the number of coastguard centres from 18 to eight, with only three open 24 hours a day, but partially backtracked, changing the plans to ensure 10 would stay open 24 hours a day.

22 June 2011: BBC World Service. William Hague, the foreign secretary, partially reversed huge cuts to World Service funding by announcing an extra £2.2m a year for the BBC's Arabic Service. A report on the Foreign Office website: "Massive U-turn on BBC World Service funding."

21 June 2011: sentencing discounts. Cameron abandoned plans to offer a 50% sentence discount to offenders who submitted early guilty pleas after tabloid criticisms of "soft justice".

13 May 2011: circus animals. The government replaced a proposed ban on wild animals in circuses with new licensing conditions.

17 February 2011: housing benefit cut. The government announced a 10% cut in housing benefit for anyone unemployed for more than a year in the June 2010 budget. Clegg feared that private sector landlords might be reluctant to rent to jobseeker's allowance claimants if their housing benefit was at risk, and the following spring the plans were dropped.

17 February 2011: selling off the forests. "We got this one wrong," said the environment secretary, Caroline Spelman, when she abandoned plans to sell 258,000 hectares of state-owned woodland in England only one month after they had been announced.

12 February 2011: Financial Inclusion Fund. In January 2011 the government said it would axe a £27m-a-year scheme paying for specialist debt advisers. Campaigners said this could lead to ill or vulnerable people lacking help dealing with serious debt. A month later the government said the service would continue for another year; it has now been replaced by the Face to Face debt advice programme.

9 February 2011: military covenant. In June 2010 Cameron said a promise of duty of care in return for the military's sacrifices would be enshrined in law. But the armed forces bill eventually published required the Ministry of Defence only to produce an annual report on the covenant.

26 December 2010: Bookstart. Writers such as Philip Pullman and Andrew Motion protested in December 2010 after the government announced plans to scrap a scheme providing free books for children, and a few days later the plan was abandoned. However, two months later it was announced that Bookstart would lose half its funding.

20 December 2010: school sports. In October 2010 Gove announced that the education department would no longer fund the £162m-a-year school sport partnerships. After heavy criticism from headteachers, Olympic sportspeople, Labour, young people and others, two months later Gove backtracked and said he had found £112m to keep the system going.

25 November 2010: domestic violence. Theresa May, the home secretary, announced in July 2010 she would abandon a scheme to remove violent partners from the family home. After pressure from charities she performed a U-turn four months later.

16 November 2010: photographer and camerawoman on the public payroll. Andrew Parsons was Cameron's personal photographer before he became prime minister, and Nicky Woodhouse made "Webcameron" videos for the Tory website, but there was an outcry when they were placed on the public payroll when the Tories took office. Cameron defended this as a cost-saving measure, but a few days later decided the Conservative party would pay their salaries.

12 November 2010: rape anonymity. In the coalition agreement in May 2010, the Tories and Liberal Democrats had suggested extending anonymity in rape cases to defendants. After protests from women's groups, who said it would have sent a message to juries that victims in rape cases should not be believed, five months later the government said there was not sufficient evidence to justify the move and scrapped it.

9 September 2010: NHS Direct. In August 2010 the Department of Health said the NHS Direct service would be scrapped. A month later Lansley said the department just meant the phone number.

8 August 2010: free school milk. Anne Milton, a Tory health minister, suggested withdrawing the scheme that gives free school milk to under-fives. The idea was quickly stamped on by No 10 – presumably because of its echoes of Margaret Thatcher's scrapping of free milk for seven- to 11-year-olds in 1971.

5 July 2010: dissolution of parliament. In what was greeted with delight by the media as the first big U-turn of the coalition, the government's plans to block the dissolution of parliament without the agreement of at least 55% of MPs were altered to allow a simple majority of MPs to trigger such a dissolution.


Didn't really think it through did you?

But apart from that, what did the Romans ever do for us? Think you are banging your head against a somerset wall!!!!!

Still not enough if my opinion. Benefits should only go to people who have paid in the system, i.e worked and fallen on bad times or have a got a proper illness that stops them from working. I don't think anybody minds this.

Benefits should certainly not be given to people from the EU or outside the EU, without a work record in the UK to back this up. i.e nobody should be entitled to it unless they have paid in to the system for x amount of years. Reason being I think the benefits in this country are too generous and in some cases we have been taken for a ride.

Same should be for our services, i.e Doctors, Hospitals, Schools and other services, people should be paying for this treatment or alternatively paying a bit more tax when they arrive in this country and after (x) amount of years this them becomes free.

Finally anyone from outside the EU must have the funds to support themselves so that they don't become a burden on the system the moment they walk through the door.

So all these student who have spent extra years gaining degrees and now apply for hundreds of jobs with no joy deserve nothing from the system because, through no fault of their own, haven't yet been able to pay into the system. Someone who got a job last week at Ford and is now on the scrap heap deserves nothing.

I'm sure Foam Mouth and Balls will have an answer for all this. I hope Labour stay well clear of running this country, however I have a bad feeling they might get back in.

All the time they spout this rubbish that The Tories only care about rich people, and the Tories are evil, the more people will fall for it. We can all agree that too much money has gone out of the system for years and has been given to people who should have absolutely no rights to it, while the rest of us keep paying taxes.

You say it's rubbish but what specific measures have been brought in by the Tories (as opposed to measures required by the Libdems as part of the coalition agreement) that benefit the less well off. Getting rid of the 50% tax rate, relaxing planning rules because let's be honest, there are millions on benefits and low pay who are just waiting for this to be able to build their extensions and conservatories. Slashing the pensions of most public sector workers despite, in the case of the Nhs and, I believe, the teachers, no evidence that the schemes don't work.

Ha,.... some people might see that as sensible flexible democratic government..... review of policy is good practice, and I suspect there would and could be a similar list made for each successive govt., well maybe not so much the last lot, they fairly well stuck to their guns, even though it was clearly not working for most of the population.

One minute you say they stick to their guns then when someone points out you are wrong it suddenly becomes flexible government.

Apart from his policies that madee the poor poorer through stealth taxes and ill thought out schemes like the car srapage scheme which took the cheap cars off the road and put up the prices of old second hand cars, pricing many out of vehicle ownership. Then there is the runaway housing market which has now priced out a lot of 1st time buyers and had the knock on effect of higher rents for those who can't afford to buy (again squeezing the low earners spending power, forcing more debt, etc) and so on.

Then perhaps had the Tories not decimated the housing stock with the sell off of council stock at budget prices and then not allow the councils to reinvest in more homes, the house prices might not have risen so greatly.

The estimated loss to the country through benefit cheats is approx. £1.2 bn per year.

The estimated loss to the country through tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion cheats (illegal) is approx. £120 bn per year. (according to The Tax Justice Network & Tax research UK).

Yet as a country we seem more concerned with the £1.2 bn than the £120 bn each year. We'd rather come down hard on the guy exaggerating a bad back, than the millionaire barely paying 10p in the £1 in tax...I know who I'd rather go after!!

The answer is that they should tackle both but it should be in proportion to the cost to the treasury. Unfortunately this won't happen because the benefit cheats don't vote Tory and the Companies benefiting from the loopholes more than likely donate to the tories and their management are almost certainly Tory voters with a few rare exceptions.

I think "Triumph" is overstating it somewhat - a touch of irony?

How about waiting for the next set, where I predict a heavy winter and the subsequent disruption will set things back.

And there's 500 jobs just down the road from me at Ford going by next summer, so it seems, along with 1,000 jobs in Dagenham. That won't help.

Agree.


Still, nice to see a decent political ranting thread on NSC, haven't seen one for a long time.

 

[somerset]

And where will the banks get the money to pay back the money they borrowed from us? Oh yes from us. What a fantastic system. Maybe when they have paid us back they can use some more of our money to gamble irresponsibly with and live a high rolling lifestyle until............it all goes tits up again, they drag the world economy to the brink of collapse.............and ask us to bail them out again.

What about this 15 billion in tax fraud, does this get paid back too?

View attachment 35409

What the effin hell are you rambling on about, you get a loan, you pay it back, simple maths. Are you one of those who thinks the banks should have been allowed to fail??......... the implications are or were too enormous to consider, the banks underpin our entire society. Without banks, you wouldnt get paid, the Albion would fail, all businesses now exists only because the entire economy and way of life that we have chosen in the so called first world remains in place because the banking system underpins it. Without it we would be bartering still, ie your twopenneth worth of male cow dung for his pot of beads. Think about it.

Tax fraud - if they are avoiding tax, the laws will hopefully catch up with them, but the reality is that they are using the loopholes that exists in the system..... once the system is sorted, then this wont be so much of an issue.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Tax fraud - if they are avoiding tax, the laws will hopefully catch up with them, but the reality is that they are using the loopholes that exists in the system..... once the system is sorted, then this wont be so much of an issue.

So why given the figures have you been banging on about families with too many kids, and benefits, when these figures are tiny compared to tax avoidance and evasion? They are not mutually exclusive, but surely the biggest effort and the largest commitment of civil servant resources should be spent clamping down on companies and individuals avoiding or evading tax they owe. If we need to prioritise, due to you can't tackle everything at once, you go after the £75-100billion. If it's not to difficult to sort the system as you state, why the hell has it not been done!! What a ridiculous thing to say when there is potentially £100bn slipping away from the Treasury each year, and yet you're banging on about just 1% of that in benefits!!!

 

[somerset]

So why given the figures have you been banging on about families with too many kids, and benefits, when these figures are tiny compared to tax avoidance and evasion? They are not mutually exclusive, but surely the biggest effort and the largest commitment of civil servant resources should be spent clamping down on companies and individuals avoiding or evading tax they owe. If we need to prioritise, due to you can't tackle everything at once, you go after the £75-100billion. If it's not to difficult to sort the system as you state, why the hell has it not been done!! What a ridiculous thing to say when there is potentially £100bn slipping away from the Treasury each year, and yet you're banging on about just 1% of that in benefits!!!

Stop it please, there has never been any suggestion that big business should be allowed to get away with it, equally many believe that the offences are the same at either end of the spectrum, just a question of scale and certainly doesnt lessen the offence because of that. By your logic you seem to suggest that perhaps shoplifters shouldnt be punished for nicking a single bottle of cider from Tescos.

 

[BadFish]

What the effin hell are you rambling on about, you get a loan, you pay it back, simple maths. Are you one of those who thinks the banks should have been allowed to fail??......... the implications are or were too enormous to consider, the banks underpin our entire society. Without banks, you wouldnt get paid, the Albion would fail, all businesses now exists only because the entire economy and way of life that we have chosen in the so called first world remains in place because the banking system underpins it. Without it we would be bartering still, ie your twopenneth worth of male cow dung for his pot of beads. Think about it.

Tax fraud - if they are avoiding tax, the laws will hopefully catch up with them, but the reality is that they are using the loopholes that exists in the system..... once the system is sorted, then this wont be so much of an issue.

I am not one of those who think that the banks should be allowed to fail. I think that they did fail spectacularly the problem was that they didn't feel much of the consequence of failing did they? hey still got paid massive bonuses and still live in luxury. Why? because it was the good old tax payer/customer who footed the bill (twice) because we couldn't let the banks fail (for all the reasons you describe) The most unfortunate thing was that world governments could not (or more accurately would not) effectively regulate the banking industry.

Not sure anyone has learnt the lesson either

 

[Simster]

Stop it please, there has never been any suggestion that big business should be allowed to get away with it, equally many believe that the offences are the same at either end of the spectrum, just a question of scale and certainly doesnt lessen the offence because of that. By your logic you seem to suggest that perhaps shoplifters shouldnt be punished for nicking a single bottle of cider from Tescos.

No. You stop it. Your type spend far more time and effort whinging about benefit fraud than the tax fraud that big business get away with.

 

[Bozza]

No. You stop it. Your type spend far more time and effort whinging about benefit fraud than the tax fraud that big business get away with.

What steps have you taken, and are you taking, to ensure your employer makes a full and proper contribution to UK PLC? I imagine you are petitioning hard from the inside, right?

 

[User removed 4]

No. You stop it. Your type spend far more time and effort whinging about benefit fraud than the tax fraud that big business get away with.

Thats because its so blatantly thrust in our faces.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Out of interest, how many of those banging on about big business evading tax still buy coffee from Starbucks, have a Vodafone mobile or shop from Amazon ?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Stop it please, there has never been any suggestion that big business should be allowed to get away with it, equally many believe that the offences are the same at either end of the spectrum, just a question of scale and certainly doesnt lessen the offence because of that. By your logic you seem to suggest that perhaps shoplifters shouldnt be punished for nicking a single bottle of cider from Tescos.

If there is a single security guard at that Tesco's you mention, and there are 2 thefts at the same time; one the single bottle of cider, the second a guy has stolen £1000 from one of the tills. Who does he go after? By YOUR logic, they are both the same, and in some ways they are - they are both theft. But who do you reckon Tesco's would prefer their guard to get?

Same with you actually, you're in the street and simultaneously, someone nicks a £1 coin out of your pocket, while another person grabs you're wallet which has £100 in it. Both theft, both as bad as each other. The person grabbing the £1 looks a bit slow, maybe undernourished actually, you could probably take him in a fight - fair game. The person grabbing the wallet though, looks sharp, pretty fit and strong, could be a challenge tackling him, might put a big fight. Who do you go after??

 

[BadFish]

Out of interest, how many of those banging on about big business evading tax still buy coffee from Starbucks, have a Vodafone mobile or shop from Amazon ?

No because it is shit. Yes but if i find out the dodge tax here in aus i will not renew. And yes occasionally to support NSC. But then again i boycott companies if their ads irritate me or inturrupt my sport or tv viewing.

For the record i believe that if we were all a bit more descerning with our consumer choices we would not be treated like such numpties by the big companies.

 

[Simster]

What steps have you taken, and are you taking, to ensure your employer makes a full and proper contribution to UK PLC? I imagine you are petitioning hard from the inside, right?

Probably about as much as you.

In the mean time, good luck with the anti-Waynetta benefit scrounger march that you're obviously currently organising, seeing as you seem to be suggesting that you are far more prinicipled than I am.