[Football] "Graham Potter’s side remain a gloriously flawed machine": The Observer 12 July

[sagaman]

The defending in “the gloriously flawed machine” seems to be more resolute away from home in most recent matches

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's a fancy metaphor, but not an acute analysis and doesn't give enough credit to Manchester City. He says that we are a team 'you relish playing', not 'City would relish playing'. The latter would be a fair statement given the two results against them this season. Potter hasn't worked out a way to play City and trying to play our game against them sees us get steamrollered, especially as we had nothing to combat their quick and aggressive ball recovery.

However, none of the teams who have failed to score against us in the last three away games would have relished playing Brighton. Most of our defeats this season have actually been hard fought and we have been draw specialists, suggesting that we're not easy to beat.

The comment about the defence is silly. On the strength of watching the City game alone, you would think that the defence needs sorting, but given that he also suggests that there is a top ten side in there, he cannot possibly be basing his analysis on that single game. We showed nothing in that match to suggest that we have any potential at all. Therefore if his analysis is based on the wider season, his assumption that it is the defence that needs sorting out to improve us is very wide of the mark. Over the season we have conceded a similar number of goals to Chelsea. It is the fact that we have scored just over half as many that leaves us in the bottom half. Only three teams in this division have scored less goals than us this season. Sorting the defence out would not overcome our main weakness.

Liew's whole report on that game was style over substance: In some parts wonderful to read, but to the detriment of accuracy. If he can improve his willingness to kill his darlings, there may be a top ten writer in there.

Great post. I'd missed this thread, and therefore Liew's report but I don't think I've missed out any critical analysis of us, just some fancy words about a better football team winning well on the night.

I'm at the point where I'm starting to think about what to write for my NSC end of season opinion piece which will be based, unlike Liew, on what we've done all season, rather than what another team has done in one game. As part of that I read back my old stuff to see if I was wildly wrong (which I will admit, we all love a good old bouncing of an incorrect opinion on here) or more or less on the mark. At halfway (27 December) I wrote this (may not work on tapatalk) and some of it has aged ok and answers some of the points. Specifically, I said:

For me it’s because our new style shows up our strengths and weaknesses far more that last season. Anyone good enough to play Premier League football should be able to maintain a defensive shape and sit in it, at least in theory. But retain possession, pass sharply, move into unusual positions, finish your chances and still not concede? Not so easy. Sometimes it goes right, others it is “less good”.

And

Except, of course, we are a very short while into the Potter experiment. We do not have the players or budget to transform immediately. This is a work in progress and like all works in progress there are times when it looks like no more than a few foundations and a pile of mud. One week the contractors bring the wrong bricks or the specialist fitter turns up three days late. The next? You take another look at the completed contract for the sale of the land or the magnificent plans or you realise you can fit that swimming pool in after all. None of these things are a disaster, none are an actual triumph. But every now and again you remember that this time last year you had a fully functioning house and now you’re visiting something half built from your temporary accommodation.

I stand by a lot of that. In fact lockdown football and the need to survive has temporarily transformed "Potterball" into "Pragmaticball". We've gamed the fixtures, playing weaker sides against the bigger teams at home (except Arsenal) and picking up points on the road at Norwich, Southampton and Leicester as a result. I fully believe that with that many games in a short time, and three of those at home against the best teams in the league currently, we've targetted games for points, and stayed up as a result.

Next season may be more of the same. With no, or limited crowds and a changed transfer window (I personally think we'll see fewer moves and not much silly money) it may be more of the same till things get back to normal.

 

[deslynhamsmoustache1]

A joke that was made on here when the cardboard cut-outs were first mooted.

I know Jonathan Liew and he's a nice guy and a very talented writer - despite his bid for permanent membership of Pseud's Corner - but he is more of a cricket man than a football expert, as some of his comments reveal. The defence isn't the problem, but the defending in midfield is. Players don't cover back quickly enough and they leave runners unmarked.

This, Both Mooy and Trossard are culpable.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

A joke that was made on here when the cardboard cut-outs were first mooted.

I know Jonathan Liew and he's a nice guy and a very talented writer - despite his bid for permanent membership of Pseud's Corner - but he is more of a cricket man than a football expert, as some of his comments reveal. The defence isn't the problem, but the defending in midfield is. Players don't cover back quickly enough and they leave runners unmarked.

Spot on and it's one of the reasons I've not been a Stephens fan for the past 2 seasons, it's been painfully obvious. His positioning and awareness is really poor at times and he doesn't have the pace to make up for it. Not just him but Propper, Mooy and Gross have all also been guilty of this. We look better when Bissouma is playing because he does stop this and if he is out of position, has the pace to make up for it. It is a position we desperately need to address in the summer.

Will also add that the defence has not been helped by the right back situation, Montoya regularly caught out of position and not helping Webster at all. Hopefully Lamptey is the answer here but as we saw on Thursday night, he is still learning.

 

[vagabond]

“A gloriously failed machine”

This article is just pretentious bollocks. Doubt he’s even seen many of our games this season.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Spot on and it's one of the reasons I've not been a Stephens fan for the past 2 seasons, it's been painfully obvious. His positioning and awareness is really poor at times and he doesn't have the pace to make up for it. Not just him but Propper, Mooy and Gross have all also been guilty of this. We look better when Bissouma is playing because he does stop this and if he is out of position, has the pace to make up for it. It is a position we desperately need to address in the summer.

Will also add that the defence has not been helped by the right back situation, Montoya regularly caught out of position and not helping Webster at all. Hopefully Lamptey is the answer here but as we saw on Thursday night, he is still learning.

The fact that both Montoya and Lamptey get caught out of position, often too narrow and pushed too far up, suggests it might be a Potter thing rather than a player thing. He dosn't seem to like width.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

The fact that both Montoya and Lamptey get caught out of position, often too narrow and pushed too far up, suggests it might be a Potter thing rather than a player thing. He dosn't seem to like width.

Doesn't seem to happen so much on the left though? Partly because I think Burn is a very intelligent and under-rated fullback and takes up the right positions most of the time which along with his distribution is one of the reasons Potter likes him there. He is also deceptively quick with those long legs. Will also say that Montoya would be caught out under Hughton too.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Doesn't seem to happen so much on the left though? Partly because I think Burn is a very intelligent and under-rated fullback and takes up the right positions most of the time which along with his distribution is one of the reasons Potter likes him there. He is also deceptively quick with those long legs. Will also say that Montoya would be caught out under Hughton too.

That's a fair point.

Burn's elevation to left back has had me swinging too and fro all season. I think I probably posted on a thread about him experimenting at left back early on that I'd have preferred Bernardo there. Latterly I've been proven wrong. Burn can defend there and also has a decent cross with his left foot. It does mean, however, that teams tend to concentrate on attacking down our right. I don't think Montoya is the long term answer so hopefully we'll work on Lamptey's postioning in the close season and use him as a conventional right back rather than RWB, where he gets caught even more (and that is down to Potter).

 

[bhadebenhams]

The fact that both Montoya and Lamptey get caught out of position, often too narrow and pushed too far up, suggests it might be a Potter thing rather than a player thing. He dosn't seem to like width.

The correct word is GIRTH and I'm sure Dean Wilkins (SEVENTH) has plenty of it

 

[Weststander]

It's a fancy metaphor, but not an acute analysis and doesn't give enough credit to Manchester City. He says that we are a team 'you relish playing', not 'City would relish playing'. The latter would be a fair statement given the two results against them this season. Potter hasn't worked out a way to play City and trying to play our game against them sees us get steamrollered, especially as we had nothing to combat their quick and aggressive ball recovery.

However, none of the teams who have failed to score against us in the last three away games would have relished playing Brighton. Most of our defeats this season have actually been hard fought and we have been draw specialists, suggesting that we're not easy to beat.

The comment about the defence is silly. On the strength of watching the City game alone, you would think that the defence needs sorting, but given that he also suggests that there is a top ten side in there, he cannot possibly be basing his analysis on that single game. We showed nothing in that match to suggest that we have any potential at all. Therefore if his analysis is based on the wider season, his assumption that it is the defence that needs sorting out to improve us is very wide of the mark. Over the season we have conceded a similar number of goals to Chelsea. It is the fact that we have scored just over half as many that leaves us in the bottom half. Only three teams in this division have scored less goals than us this season. Sorting the defence out would not overcome our main weakness.

Liew's whole report on that game was style over substance: In some parts wonderful to read, but to the detriment of accuracy. If he can improve his willingness to kill his darlings, there may be a top ten writer in there.

Liew is lorded by some on NSC as THE greatest football writer. But I find many of his articles sanctimonious, he makes sweeping statements about a club’s football, which might fit at that moment after a couple of (oh so predictable) defeats, but prior to that wouldn’t rung true at all.

It’s one of those instances where we who live, eat and breathe the Albion, analytically know far more about where’ve been, are and are going in terms of our football. We have the common sense to realise it’s a squad building journey, we can’t do a Wolves or Villa in bringing in allegedly top players in their hoards in one window, whilst 95% of fans see the improvements Potter’s made in just one season.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Liew is lorded by some on NSC as THE greatest football writer. But I find many of his articles sanctimonious, he makes sweeping statements about a club’s football, which might fit at that moment after a couple of (oh so predictable) defeats, but prior to that wouldn’t rung true at all.

It’s one of those instances where we who live, eat and breathe the Albion, analytically know far more about where’ve been, are and are going in terms of our football. We have the common sense to realise it’s a squad building journey, we can’t do a Wolves or Villa in bringing in allegedly top players in their hoards in one window, whilst 95% of fans see the improvements Potter’s made in just one season.

The national press have a tough job. I couldn't accurately write about another PL team beyond the last game I remember seeing them play (case in point, West Ham looked like a Europa League team in the first half last night, their league position suggests they are far from that). That should be what makes The Athletic keep its subscribers - national coverage with local writers. Unfortunately we've got Naylor who knows far more about Brighton than Liew but writes like a Woodentop.

 

[Falmer Wizard]

Agreed. We're quite weak, physically and mentally. There's not a lot of leadership or bite in the current team. Maupay is a scrapper but he's one of the only ones. I sometimes get the sense that GP/the club feel we should get praise for trying to play "good" football. I'd rather be a bit more pragmatic and win than look nice and lose.

We are what we can afford,unfortunately!!!

 

[Falmer Wizard]

Spot on and it's one of the reasons I've not been a Stephens fan for the past 2 seasons, it's been painfully obvious. His positioning and awareness is really poor at times and he doesn't have the pace to make up for it. Not just him but Propper, Mooy and Gross have all also been guilty of this. We look better when Bissouma is playing because he does stop this and if he is out of position, has the pace to make up for it. It is a position we desperately need to address in the summer.

Will also add that the defence has not been helped by the right back situation, Montoya regularly caught out of position and not helping Webster at all. Hopefully Lamptey is the answer here but as we saw on Thursday night, he is still learning.

Can only agree,however thats all we can afford

 

[Weststander]

Doesn't seem to happen so much on the left though? Partly because I think Burn is a very intelligent and under-rated fullback and takes up the right positions most of the time which along with his distribution is one of the reasons Potter likes him there. He is also deceptively quick with those long legs. Will also say that Montoya would be caught out under Hughton too.

We don’t seem to get wide midfielder support out to our RB, whoever they’ve been over the three PL seasons and under two entirely different managers/tactics. The only half hearted plan was sometimes a very slow Gross, sometimes Propper.

So many times pacey opposition LB’s and LW’s overload our RB, Stains, Bmuff, Burnley, Cardiff to name just a few, have thrived on this achilles hill.

Whereas strangely our left flank often seems crowded with players of both teams. Something easy to spot from the NS in matches.

 

[b.w.2.]

Just a glorious machine


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[Johnny RoastBeef]

Spot on and it's one of the reasons I've not been a Stephens fan for the past 2 seasons, it's been painfully obvious. His positioning and awareness is really poor at times and he doesn't have the pace to make up for it. Not just him but Propper, Mooy and Gross have all also been guilty of this. We look better when Bissouma is playing because he does stop this and if he is out of position, has the pace to make up for it. It is a position we desperately need to address in the summer.

Will also add that the defence has not been helped by the right back situation, Montoya regularly caught out of position and not helping Webster at all. Hopefully Lamptey is the answer here but as we saw on Thursday night, he is still learning.

The fact we tried to sign Sander Berge and Thomas Soucek last summer is a good indication that the club are well aware we need midfield reinforcements.

Fingers crossed we have better luck this summer.

 

[nickjhs]

I think there's a difference between being "nasty" and being "competitive". Andone doesn't make us more competitive because he's a bit of a loon. Maupay is a better example of the kind of player I'd like to see more of at the Albion: Snidey and a bit of a sh*thouse

Connolly also has a bit of go about him as well. Sort out the midfield, get those two supplied and I think we will be ok. Its clear that Maupay can finish awkward balls given the chance, Connolly needs a bit of work but his workrate and niggling make him well worth the investment. Here's hoping Mac slots in and Trossard gets back to the form he was showing before he got injured. .

 

[Sussex Hopburner]

A joke that was made on here when the cardboard cut-outs were first mooted.

I know Jonathan Liew and he's a nice guy and a very talented writer - despite his bid for permanent membership of Pseud's Corner - but he is more of a cricket man than a football expert, as some of his comments reveal. The defence isn't the problem, but the defending in midfield is. Players don't cover back quickly enough and they leave runners unmarked.

Spot on..I enjoy Liew's work..even his rare appearance on football weekly.

This match was not the right one for him to try to summarize our season, however you could argue that defence includes the mistakes made in front of the Defenders in the back 4 or 5.

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