[News] Government smoking ban.

[Spiros]

In 2022/23, there were an estimated 384,000 incidents of violent crime where the victim believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol. The victim believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol in 38% of all violent incidents.

Imagine a society where this didn’t happen

Isn’t that what the US “imagined” in the 1930s? All it did was drive alcohol production and sales underground and fuelled gang violence. Is that what you want?

 

[Chicken Run]

Isn’t that what the US “imagined” in the 1930s? All it did was drive alcohol production and sales underground and fuelled gang violence. Is that what you want?

Prohibition in the US was a blanket ban no? If you had digested my original post fully you would have seen i was suggesting banning the sale of alcohol from shops, NOT bars, NOT pubs and NOT restaurants nor am i suggesting the banning of production either

“The production, importation, transportation and sale of alcohol was completely banned across the whole of the United States for the 13-year period known as Prohibition”

 

[Billy the Fish]

Can’t help thinking that this is electioneering gubbins. Prohibition has never worked, how long have drugs been illegal? It is already illegal for under 18s to vape yet over 100,00 every year try it out. It will make the black market bigger so someone will get rich.

I think this will be an indication of how shit and pointless tobacco smoking is.

I don't see there being a black market, what would be the point compared to existing drug markets

 

[Justice]

I think this will be an indication of how shit and pointless tobacco smoking is.

I don't see there being a black market, what would be the point compared to existing drug markets

Seriously? It’s already worth millions to large scale cigarette smugglers.

 

[Me Atome]

I don't have a strong view on this one way or another. I hate to see any restraints on peoples liberties, however, smoking is a really silly thing to do. It's expensive and bad for your heath.
But this proposal does have some merit; the idea is to make it more difficult for teenagers to buy cigarettes, in the hope that the number of teenagers who become addicted will reduce. As time goes by, less and less teenagers will bother to take up smoking. In 20 years' time nobody below 35 will be (in theory anyway) permitted to buy cigarettes. Of course there will be a black market, people will buy cigarettes for their mates etc etc, but the target of this is the teenagers, over the long period, and I think it could just work. Perhaps....

 

[Billy the Fish]

Seriously? It’s already worth millions to large scale cigarette smugglers.

That's in the current market where you can buy it legally. A ban changes the landscape completely. Prices would go through the roof for starters.

Why would you bother risking a record when vapes exist and there's better illegal stuff like bud or powder?

 

[Justice]

I don't have a strong view on this one way or another. I hate to see any restraints on peoples liberties, however, smoking is a really silly thing to do. It's expensive and bad for your heath.
But this proposal does have some merit; the idea is to make it more difficult for teenagers to buy cigarettes, in the hope that the number of teenagers who become addicted will reduce. As time goes by, less and less teenagers will bother to take up smoking. In 20 years' time nobody below 35 will be (in theory anyway) permitted to buy cigarettes. Of course there will be a black market, people will buy cigarettes for their mates etc etc, but the target of this is the teenagers, over the long period, and I think it could just work. Perhaps....

It’s interesting I know more people who started smoking in their twenties. The college kids if they do are on roll ups but most vape.

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't have a strong view on this one way or another. I hate to see any restraints on peoples liberties, however, smoking is a really silly thing to do. It's expensive and bad for your heath.
But this proposal does have some merit; the idea is to make it more difficult for teenagers to buy cigarettes, in the hope that the number of teenagers who become addicted will reduce. As time goes by, less and less teenagers will bother to take up smoking. In 20 years' time nobody below 35 will be (in theory anyway) permitted to buy cigarettes. Of course there will be a black market, people will buy cigarettes for their mates etc etc, but the target of this is the teenagers, over the long period, and I think it could just work. Perhaps....

Hmm, peoples liberties you say, there’s little doubt the state salami slicer has taken another slice of freedom on its journey towards authoritarianism this week.

I’m willing to take a punt that those who are in raptures about this new law would also have been the most vocal in support on the Covid lockdowns?

These people tend to use the term “fascist” when dealing with people they disagree with………………where’s Bill Hicks when we really need him.

 

[clapham_gull]

It's a completely unworkable policy and that's the issue.

Quite difficult to vote against of course.

Over time you need to make smoking socially unacceptable and too much of a hassle. If this legalisation goes through, you'll simply see an upturn in the black market.

 

[drew]

It's a completely unworkable policy and that's the issue.

Quite difficult to vote against of course.

Over time you need to make smoking socially unacceptable and too much of a hassle. If this legalisation goes through, you'll simply see an upturn in the black market.

It's not completely unworkable, it will be hard but not 'completely' unworkable. You might as well say that there are still burglaries so let's not make it a crime, or there are people still drinking and driving so that hasn't stopped so let's change the law for that.

I would also argue that, generally, smoking is socially unacceptable. Unfortunately, enforcement is the problem because of lack of police to enforce it.

 

[The Clamp]

The smoking ban in pubs was seen as unworkable back in the 00’s but since July ‘07 we’ve all just got on with it.

The worst thing about it was that it’s made pubs child friendly. Which has killed off many pubs.

Kids on cafes and restaurants? Yep, very good thing. In pubs? Nope, very bad thing.

Anyhoo, I digress. Ban smoking. It’s the way forward.

Ban petrol cars

Ban water companies pumping effluent into our waterways.

Ban second jobs for MP’s.

Ban pesticides and ban Monsanto single yield seeds.

Ban vapes

Ban the ban on peaceful protest

Dig ditches

Choose life.

 

[clapham_gull]

It's not completely unworkable, it will be hard but not 'completely' unworkable. You might as well say that there are still burglaries so let's not make it a crime, or there are people still drinking and driving so that hasn't stopped so let's change the law for that.

I would also argue that, generally, smoking is socially unacceptable. Unfortunately, enforcement is the problem because of lack of police to enforce it.

It's the sliding scale thing, I can see it now, shop keepers with a calculator.

A more workable policy would be to say, cigarettes will be unavailable after this date. A policy that says adult of one age can do something, whilst another cannot is very very difficult to police surely ?

It would have to be done in conjunction with specialist shops that are licenced to sell cigarettes and heavily regulated. Stop the sale in other shops now.

 

[drew]

It's the sliding scale thing, I can see it now, shop keepers with a calculator.

A more workable policy would be to say, cigarettes will be unavailable after this date. A policy that says adult of one age can do something, whilst another cannot is very very difficult to police surely ?

It would have to be done in conjunction with specialist shops that are licenced to sell cigarettes and heavily regulated. Stop the sale in other shops now.

Don't forget the bill hasn't been finalised, it's just had it's first reading and debate. There will be amendments added at committee stage and the Lords so there are likely to be changes which may well incorporate some of the things you suggest.