schmunk
Why oh why oh why?
Interesting. Not a product i'd noticed before. Let's ban that too.
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[News] Government smoking ban.
- Thread starter Leekbrookgull
- Start date
When I went to Northern Ireland last year I found it's generally harder to buy alcohol from shops or supermarkets over there. I think they tend to have actual off licenses rather than every shop having an alcohol aisle.
I only realised how odd it is that we can buy alcohol from petrol stations when I discovered how outraged I was to walk into one where I couldn't.
How much tax does it bring in?
I'm not a smoker, but I don't agree with banning things that are personal choice, if someone wants to Kill themselves/harm themselves go for it.
If the argument is saving NHS money, we should be banning booze among other activities.
Ban fat people from buying anything but salad would save us tons....
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Banning drugs has worked well.
And, by well, I mean terribly. The net cost to the NHS is whatever they have to spend treating people who have taken drugs, as the tax income is zero.
The Clamp
Well-known member
And to the police and courts for dealing with all the crimes illegal drugs generate.
And to social services dealing with all the trauma and fallout from what some people have to lower themselves to in order to get illegal drugs.
It’s endless really.
It's a waste of time, Police won't enforce it either.
New Zealand have already reversed it I believe
dupe
The Clamp
Well-known member
It can’t be policed unless the constabulary demand to inspect the documents of anyone under the age of 30, then 40, then 50 etc etc
SeagullinExile
Well-known member
Nah. However, supermarkets should be banned from selling cheap alcohol as a loss leader.
Worried Man Blues
Well-known member
It twenty years time it'll b e as obvious as me not being asked my age when buying alcohol!!
pocketseagull
Well-known member
- Dec 29, 2014
- 1,362
Amount of people smoking and taking up the habit has been on the decline, it's a public health success really. I think a ban could well be counterproductive and prohibition isn't progressive imo. At a time when even USA is backing down on prohibition of other substances we're doubling down. Not surprised Labour backed this but disappointing as we're a far way off any sensible drug policy.
You are fairly in the know with this sort of stuff
What's the polices view of these laws coming in?
I think The Scottish offence bill means just more wasted police time, or am I wrong?
The Clamp
Well-known member
I imagine it will be the same as the Nos balloon ban.
It’s not really taken seriously in itself but can be a good excuse to Section 35 known trouble makers out of town.
Or to build up a case against a person to get known individuals various forms of community behaviour orders.
Can be used by licensing to get a venue closed down over time when added with other violations.
But as for police stopping and checking adults solely to see if they should be smoking?
Very unlikely.
So I shouldn't be allowed to have a couple of cans of lager watching football at home because a tiny minority of people over indulge & can't behave? I can buy 4 cans of lager for £5 which is about the same as a pint in most pubs. So yet another attack on the poor basically. Drinking should only be enjoyed by those who can afford to pay the high prices in pubs & bars I guess!
The whole personal choice/libertarian argument doesn't wash with me as it's not really free will when people are duped by a multi-billion dollar industry convincing them that it's cool to smoke (and then they become physically addicted).
Banning smoking indoors (in public) has helped massively, but passive smoking is still an issue. Smoking whilst pregnant, though frowned upon, is legal despite the well-known problems it can cause.
There is also the environmental effect of tobacco production and consumption to factor in:
WHO raises alarm on tobacco industry environmental impact
WHO has today revealed new information on the extent to which tobacco damages both the environment and human health, calling for steps to make the industry more accountable for the destruction it is causing.
Although you get into whataboutery re the cost to the NHS, it is still a huge reason to ban smoking.
The counterpoint there is that there is a safe level of drinking alcohol (some argue minor positive benefits to be gained from a glass of wine here & there).
Also, from an economic perspective, banning alcohol would destroy huge parts of the hospitality industry, taking away millions of jobs directly and also within the supply chains. It would take someone FAR brighter than me to work out a figure, but the damage to the economy would be on a scale far beyond banning smoking.
There are other spurious arguments to cite - e.g. does the cost to the NHS of treating injuries suffered playing sport mean we should ban contact sports? (No - because the health (and economic) benefits of exercise make up for it.)
For what it's worth, I'm not sure a ban is the silver bullet to end smoking, but alongside the existing measures (health warnings/education; advertising bans) it will help speed that process up. It's going to be take a long time, but as the attitude of each generation changes it should gradually die out, so the age-based ban makes sense to me and will just be acknowledged with a shrug as time goes by.
There will still be those that for whatever reason will want to keep smoking and will find illegal ways to do so, but the same can be said for pretty much all laws. The fact that people break the law speeding doesn't mean we should give up on speed limits.
This has somewhat snowballed into a rant, so I should say that it's not aimed at you personally @Kinky Gerbil
That looks a lot like treating a symptom not the cause to me.
Wishful thinking perhaps (and obvs it'll never be perfect), but if there was a fairer society, with better education and opportunities for all, might we end up with fewer people ending up at home drinking cheap lager in their pants before beating the wife?
Some slightly less tongue in cheek input here.
The police will likely police this the same way they do with under age drinking. If they notice an increase in under age smoking in a particular area, then they will send test purchasers into local retailers and check if the retailer is following the correct procedures for checking id. If they are not and sell to under age smokers, they risk losing a licence to sell tobacco and or fines.
The police will likely police this the same way they do with under age drinking. If they notice an increase in under age smoking in a particular area, then they will send test purchasers into local retailers and check if the retailer is following the correct procedures for checking id. If they are not and sell to under age smokers, they risk losing a licence to sell tobacco and or fines.
I'm not funded by the tobacco companies!
(And I've never smoked).But yes, your point is valid. I am in favour of the decriminalisation/legalisation of drugs so this ban is a step in the wrong direction for me, but as you say I wonder how many of the Tories opposing the ban also support the 'war on drugs'?