[Football] Giving the development squad players a chance...

[Kosh]

Don't know about three extra substitutes - but maybe they could make it a rule that one of the subs is a youngster. We can't use all the subs anyway, so it doesn't really jeopardise the team's chances.
As for putting youngsters on the bench, I'd love us to make a point of doing it - and even if, as someone said, we aren't 2-0 up and cruising with ten minutes left very often, there still would be a few occasions we could give a youngster a few minutes game time without significant risk, They might actually play very well anyway! Don't think CH will do it, though.

Same way as I'm in favour of leaving one up at corners and free kicks - but that won't happen either. I still want CH in charge though - the positives (the results) far out-weigh the negatives.

Fully agree.

Well said that man

 

[chaileyjem]

Our Development Squad is like the football equivilant of the Witness Protectection Programme.

Or...Would you prefer it that in our senior 25 man squad we didn't have fringe players who were internationals, worth millions and can seamlessly switch into the first 18, 11 and replace our best players and every window is getting stronger ?

If we had a lot of injuries, the strength in depth was poor, and we relied on development squad players to fill the gap ?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

More and more seem to be willing to try their luck abroad, the Bundesliga seems to be keen to play them even if the Premier league won't.

Worth a read if haven’t

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/football-indepth/young-british-footballers-abroad-europe/

 

[chaileyjem]

Max Sanders has just been picked for the England u19s squad for the U19s Euros.

https://www.thefa.com/news/2018/jul/16/england-u19s-squad-named-for-euro-finals-160718

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Greg Dyke, when he was FA chair, wanted to strengthen HGP as part of a plan to help the England squad. Ie: Southgate has only a third of Prem League players to choose from. He wanted to increase 8 in the squad to 12. And stop the loophole where foreign players become HGP.
It failed. Premier League Chairman at the time didn't vote for it.

There is an argument that HGP rule has hindered some players as clubs will keep hold of them rather than sell/loan to make sure they can name the maximum squad in the league.

 

[Kosh]

Max Sanders has just been picked for the England u19s squad for the U19s Euros.

https://www.thefa.com/news/2018/jul/16/england-u19s-squad-named-for-euro-finals-160718

Surely worth a place on our bench this coming season? Or is Percy Tau (for example) currently a.) a proven quantity, b.) playing at a higher standard currently?

 

[BigGully]

Or...Would you prefer it that in our senior 25 man squad we didn't have fringe players who were internationals, worth millions and can seamlessly switch into the first 18, 11 and replace our best players and every window is getting stronger ?

If we had a lot of injuries, the strength in depth was poor, and we relied on development squad players to fill the gap ?

Herein lies the problem, if as most of us we would like to see development players coming through and impacting on the first team then really we need a policy that circumvents that consequence of playing in the premier league, if not then it can become questionable if our academy really is worth the £3 million annual budget.

If you accept that we are not in the bidding for Argentinians, Belgium, Germans or Spanish youth internationals it becomes unlikely that we then go on to develop a young player that suddenly becomes so exceptional that he might demand first team selection based purely on ability, unless you offer opportunity outside of constraints of the quite reasonable fear of premier league status then you run the risk of hardly ever giving opportunity to young talent.

It's an English problem not just a Brighton one, if you analysed the paper trail of our (BHA) own international and premier league quality first team players then I suspect that someone somewhere gave them an opportunity beyond perhaps what their talent/experience actually deserved, perhaps an injury, a suspension or just lack of competitive playing personnel that forced opportunity on young players where normally non would exist, after which they flourished and developed (although many might have failed too) to become a mid level premier league players, something without that earlier opportunity they might not have ever achieved.

They then become instrumental in trying to keep us in the premier league whilst ironically diminishing opportunity for young English/developmental talent that that they themselves were lucky to receive at the same time.

 

[chaileyjem]

Surely worth a place on our bench this coming season?

We have a lot of players and some expensive, international, premier league midfielders who won't be guaranteed a place this season. He was on the bench last season for the Cup game v Man Utd. Clearly club think he's a great prospect but chances of him being ahead of Kayal, [Bissouma], Propper, Stephens, and others who can play that CM role for league games, even on the bench, must be unlikely unless we have a bad run of injuries/suspensions.

 

[chaileyjem]

Herein lies the problem, if as most of us we would like to see development players coming through and impacting on the first team then really we need a policy that circumvents that consequence of playing in the premier league, if not then it can become questionable if our academy really is worth the £3 million annual budget.

Isn't it a FA/Premier League problem ? Its entirely within their gift to incentivise or prioritise the development and playing of English players (More HGP in a squad, eliminate foreign signings loopholes, and other policy changes around loans, compensation fees, size of squads). Until then its tough to stop or blame Albion signing and developing (some) non UK players although Albion's youth recruitment is pretty balanced.
As for whether its worth the budget is a different issue. It only takes 1-2 players to come through in a 5 year period who become Champ or Premier League regulars for it to pay its way. Christian Walton is potentially a £10m player already if he has a successful Champ season. I've no idea if Max Sanders will break through or not but if he did and became an Albion regular then 18/19 year Prem League players are worth £££.

 

[Kosh]

We have a lot of players and some expensive, international, premier league midfielders who won't be guaranteed a place this season. He was on the bench last season for the Cup game v Man Utd. Clearly club think he's a great prospect but chances of him being ahead of Kayal, [Bissouma], Propper, Stephens, and others who can play that CM role for league games, even on the bench, must be unlikely unless we have a bad run of injuries/suspensions.

Whilst I agree - he could turn out to be better than Kayal has thus far shown at this level - i’d love it he got one or two real opportunities to prove his potential quality. Let’s wait and see... you never know until you try!

 

[GT49er]

There is an argument that HGP rule has hindered some players as clubs will keep hold of them rather than sell/loan to make sure they can name the maximum squad in the league.

How does that prevent young HGPs getting on the bench? Young players don't have to be named in the squad, do they? They can still play in the first team though if picked, even if they're not named in the squad (somebody please correct me if I've got that wrong!).

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

How does that prevent young HGPs getting on the bench? Young players don't have to be named in the squad, do they? They can still play in the first team though if picked, even if they're not named in the squad (somebody please correct me if I've got that wrong!).

You have to have named 8 hgp to be able to name the full 25 man squad in the league.

So you will find some clubs registering players and note/rarely using to be able to name another overseas player

 

[chaileyjem]

How does that prevent young HGPs getting on the bench? Young players don't have to be named in the squad, do they? They can still play in the first team though if picked, even if they're not named in the squad (somebody please correct me if I've got that wrong!).

Straying into @azgull territory here who will confirm but i've always understood that Albion can use as many u21 players in their squads, of any nationality, as they like in addition to the 25 (which has to have 8+ HGP in a 25 man squad. However if , for example, Albion only had 7 eligible HGP then they don't have to have 8, they would just name a 24 squad or 23 or 22 and so on.

 

[GT49er]

You have to have named 8 hgp to be able to name the full 25 man squad in the league.

So you will find some clubs registering players and note/rarely using to be able to name another overseas player

Yes, but that doesn't stop them playing young players, who don't have to be named as part of the squad. HGPs or not, squads are limited to 25, and most clubs will want to have a full 25 anyway - but that's 25 'overage' players.
We had HGPs in the squad last year who didn't get a game, or hardly ever anyway (and some overseas players hardly figured either) but we could have played a youngster or two had we wanted to.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Straying into @azgull territory here who will confirm but i've always understood that Albion can use as many u21 players in their squads, of any nationality, as they like in addition to the 25 (which has to have 8+ HGP in a 25 man squad. However if , for example, Albion only had 7 eligible HGP then they don't have to have 8, they would just name a 24 squad or 23 or 22 and so on.

That’s how I understand it, you have the A named squad - Ryan, Dunk etc then an unlimited B list which is all u23s? Which doesn’t affect the A list.

 

[GT49er]

Straying into @azgull territory here who will confirm but i've always understood that Albion can use as many u21 players in their squads, of any nationality, as they like in addition to the 25 (which has to have 8+ HGP in a 25 man squad. However if , for example, Albion only had 7 eligible HGP then they don't have to have 8, they would just name a 24 squad or 23 or 22 and so on.

Yes, that's my understanding too. They could name a squad of just 17 and make up the numbers with any number of U21s (HGP or not). Not that I would recommend doing that................................................

 

[GT49er]

That’s how I understand it, you have the A named squad - Ryan, Dunk etc then an unlimited B list which is all u23s? Which doesn’t affect the A list.

Yes, so how does that prevent us playing youngsters if we want to?

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

You have to have named 8 hgp to be able to name the full 25 man squad in the league.

So you will find some clubs registering players and note/rarely using to be able to name another overseas player

Players under 21 are not named in the PL squad but can be used at anytime. Clubs don't need to register a HGP in the squad just be able to name/use another overseas player. The 25 man squad can contain a maximum of 17 overseas players. If the club cannot name 8 HGP it simply leaves the squad short by however many HGPs are missing. Chelsea named 21 man squad after the January transfer window with 5 HGP and 16 overseas, they could have named 1 more overseas player if they had one.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Players under 21 are not named in the PL squad but can be used at anytime. Clubs don't need to register a HGP in the squad just be able to name/use another overseas player. The 25 man squad can contain a maximum of 17 overseas players. If the club cannot name 8 HGP it simply leaves the squad short by however many HGPs are missing. Chelsea named 21 man squad after the January transfer window with 5 HGP and 16 overseas, they could have named 1 more overseas player if they had one.

Aaaa fair enough

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Yes, so how does that prevent us playing youngsters if we want to?

As the HGP is just there to make up the numbers - allowed to name maximum squad instead of getting more first team football elsewhere