[Football] Giving the development squad players a chance...

[Napier's Knee]

Slightly off-topic but we need to watch Molumby closely. He was shaping up very very nicely as someone who could play the Stephens role two or three yards slightly higher (he was becoming good enough for the first team squad), but he has been out since January time and has only just returned to full fitness. What happens to him will tell us a lot about how difficult - and fortunate given injuries - the transition to the first team can be. Fingers crossed for him

 

[Kosh]

Slightly off-topic but we need to watch Molumby closely. He was shaping up very very nicely as someone who could play the Stephens role two or three yards slightly higher (he was becoming good enough for the first team squad), but he has been out since January time and has only just returned to full fitness. What happens to him will tell us a lot about how difficult - and fortunate given injuries - the transition to the first team can be. Fingers crossed for him

I'd say it's entirely on topic! Very good point, and one of our most likely to actually make it younger players - here's hoping he can (or is allowed to) fulfill his promise post his injury problems.

 

[tigertim68]

I'd say 2-0 at home is as cruising as it gets at this level!

Obvioulsy 2-0 against one of the big boys, yep r i s k y... however; 2-0 up against a Cardiff, then I'd like to think a young player could be given the nod.

No easy games in the Premier, every game is a battle for 90 mins

 

[PeterOut]

Does it. Let's say we're 2-0 up and cruising at home - is it a bold move to bring on Bjordal for the last 15? Or is it an intelligent policy of building confidence etc. Yes we could end up losing 3-2, but it's unlikely. Fully agree re starting a development player at this level, but well timed action here and there could be worth more than 46 games struggling to survive in the Championship at Wigan for example.

Struggling to remember the last time we were cruising 2-0 up in the PL. Maybe once we start to do that regularly, your discussion becomes valid. Until that time, however...

 

[BensGrandad]

having watched some of the players mentioned I would suggest that other than those who have been out on loan very few look good enough to make the jump the exceptions being Molumby Sanders and Gykores who seem the most likely to make the jump up. Tilley and Connolly have been given chances in cup games but not realy seized the chance while Ben White has been out on loan and done well. Barclay & Mandiriou look good prospects but I do not think any of them are anywhere near ready for the first team squad on a regular basis so bringing in players is the only way to improve the 25 man squad.

 

[andy1980]

As has been said, it will be interesting to see how Molumby does after his injury. Not long back I predicted that maybe 4 youngsters would come through in the next couple of years. To my delight 3 of them played yesterday (Molumby is the other one) and to be honest the only one I was impressed with in that game was Ben White. Bearing that in mind I think another season on loan for Walton and White will do them good and for the other two as-well.

 

[BensGrandad]

It must be remebered that they all still very young and still learning their trade. The likes of Whiteside Rooney and Ryan Sessegnon are exceptions to the rule.

 

[chaileyjem]

Our set up now means we can either develop players through loans (see: Walton) for profit (see: mateju. ) or through fringe first team / cup apps (Molumby, Sanders) - you don’t need many to pay off or should expect them to do so.
But the expectation that with a 25 man squad improving all the time with even fringe players worth millions , and all of em desperate for game time - that young u23 players are going to be in first team squads is a stretch. Of only a couple become regulars over a 5 year period that would be an amazing success and a financial one. If Sanders, let’s say, became a regular next season at age of 18/19 then he’s straight into the £10m bracket.

 

[Kosh]

Our set up now means we can either develop players through loans (see: Walton) for profit (see: mateju. ) or through fringe first team / cup apps (Molumby, Sanders) - you don’t need many to pay off or should expect them to do so.
But the expectation that with a 25 man squad improving all the time with even fringe players worth millions , and all of em desperate for game time - that young u23 players are going to be in first team squads is a stretch. Of only a couple become regulars over a 5 year period that would be an amazing success and a financial one. If Sanders, let’s say, became a regular next season at age of 18/19 then he’s straight into the £10m bracket.

I agree with all of that - yet Sanders will realistically only become a regular IF given some opportunities out on the pitch. Doubtless he'll be off on loan, as is our policy. I'd prefer it if we'd strategically target loans to teams who play a similar system and are likely to challenge at the right end of their respective division's. Winning regularly breeds confidence, and develops winners. Playing at the foot of the championship for a season (for example) is not likely to help develop anything other than a thicker skin, a lack of confidence and a general loss of morale.

I'm not sure the current system is working, as thus far our academy has struggled to do anything than move players out/on for nominal fees.

 

[B.W.]

OK Kosh... who are the 2 or 3 U23's that you think should be in our first team squad? Walton is out, so who?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I wanted to gauge opinion via nsc regarding our current set of promising younger players and whether we should be giving some a real chance this coming season? As it would appear we're engaged in chasing yet more imports for relatively vast sums - which I'm a little weary and increasingly wary of.

Obviously people will argue they're not ready, need a season out on loan to prove their quality etc. but I would love to see a couple or three of them in the 25 and on the bench (actually actively) involved this year. I look elsewhere in the PL and see academy players involved and making a name for themselves, some now with England. Are we still too early in our new setup to have bought on genuine talent? or are our senior management team reticent when it comes to giving our youngsters a real shot at the league?

Personally, I'm a firm believer that some young talent which dissolves into a career of relative obscurity might well have written a differing footballing epitaph if they're top level manager had, had the balls to give them a chance. All it takes is a couple of goals here, a clean sheet there and career trajectory can be ultimately determined. Solly (perhaps most recently) has shown how an opportunity can be grabbed, I just hope the PL allows our management team to give another that same chance.

I appreciate the huge leap of faith and gamble surrounding this policy, but I look at some of our recent recruitment and ask myself: can one of our talented development players be worse (technically) than the greyhound? Right now I look at our purported target's: Tau and this Mali player - I just can't help thinking that the £20m seemingly required therein represents a FAR greater gamble.

Thoughts?

Peace be the journey.

You make good and salient points there Kosh. There are prem clubs that bring on their younger talent, I am of course thinking Southampton straight away, who ship them out to Liverpool. Trouble is, in the cauldron of the Prem where we are not a top six side it is all about survival. The manager will think this and this only, and bringing on youth puts his head on the chopping block. I know, if I were in CH's shoes I wouldn't take the risk. Dunky and March were brought on when we were lower league, now we are with the big boys and playing against the Aguero's, Hazard's, De Bruyne's and Salah's of this world it becomes all that more difficult for these kids to come through the ranks. I can't see us bringing through many, any time soon.

 

[BensGrandad]

I would think the path is set for us to follow Southamptons route and sell them on to lower league clubs with a sell on/buy back clause in the sale.

 

[Kosh]

OK Kosh... who are the 2 or 3 U23's that you think should be in our first team squad? Walton is out, so who?

Based on Bjordal being gone; I'd say any three from the following:

Sanders, Tilley, Molumby, Gykores, and White.

Two being more likely. I'd take one of them over a Tau type signing any day of the week. My opinion granted, but what life is all about really.

 

[Husty]

The money at stake in terms of survival vs relegation strongly influence the willingness to take chances - it all just means too much at this level and it's a very cutthroat league. Sad but true.

 

[BensGrandad]

Based on Bjordal being gone; I'd say any three from the following:

Sanders, Tilley, Molumby, Gykores, and White.

Two being more likely. I'd take one of them over a Tau type signing any day of the week. My opinion granted, but what life is all about really.

IMHO they all need to go out on loan again for another season at either a League 1 or Championship clujb if considerted good enough for that standard. They are all young enough to come back to us ready for season 19/20. Could this be why we have created a Loans Manager David Weir.

 

[Kosh]

You make good and salient points there Kosh. There are prem clubs that bring on their younger talent, I am of course thinking Southampton straight away, who ship them out to Liverpool. Trouble is, in the cauldron of the Prem where we are not a top six side it is all about survival. The manager will think this and this only, and bringing on youth puts his head on the chopping block. I know, if I were in CH's shoes I wouldn't take the risk. Dunky and March were brought on when we were lower league, now we are with the big boys and playing against the Aguero's, Hazard's, De Bruyne's and Salah's of this world it becomes all that more difficult for these kids to come through the ranks. I can't see us bringing through many, any time soon.

Thanks for that and yes your argument is of course why we are where we are with regard these players. I do stand by the point that 15 mins here and there, in the right circumstances, can only be seen as a positive thing however. That said a season playing week in week out elsewhere (again in the right circumstances) can also be seen as the safer and proper (he's earned it boss) route. Again I realise the conundrum for the manager - but I'm not seeing the current system reap tangible rewards, whilst other clubs are seemingly brilliant at it. Oh well :/

 

[B.W.]

Based on Bjordal being gone; I'd say any three from the following:

Sanders, Tilley, Molumby, Gykores, and White.

Two being more likely. I'd take one of them over a Tau type signing any day of the week. My opinion granted, but what life is all about really.

I would exclude Tilley (chances NOT taken), but agree with the other names listed as being the most likely... will be very surprised if CH offers them many chances outside of cup games TBH...

 

[Kosh]

Do we all agree the development system is worth it then? Or has been thus far?

I do, but the level of investment eventually demands a return - which will take an age whilst moving promising (unproven) players on for relative peanuts. Surely we have to speculate to accumulate, drive up value as PL appearances seemingly do... It's just a thought.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Based on Bjordal being gone; I'd say any three from the following:

Sanders, Tilley, Molumby, Gykores, and White.

Two being more likely. I'd take one of them over a Tau type signing any day of the week. My opinion granted, but what life is all about really.

I'd add George Cox and Daniel Mandroiu to the potential list.

 

[Kosh]

I would exclude Tilley (chances NOT taken), but agree with the other names listed as being the most likely... will be very surprised if CH offers them many chances outside of cup games TBH...

Yep; therein lies the rub. I would't change our manager (who would?!?), but would love the odd little roll of the dice here and there!