Get That f***ing Shiny Teethed Ginger Ruddy Faced Prick OUT NOW!!!

[Man of Harveys]

oh how we english love a scapegoat.

That is true, although they're normally foreigners, all of whom are cheating "us": foreign referees, like that Dane who sent Beckham off, or "incompetents" like Sven, greasy diving cheats (sic) like Ronaldo etc etc etc. The inability to dump the blame at anybody other than Englishmen at this time of failing must make it tougher for some, esp. many in Fleet Street.

 

[Tooting Gull]

That is true, although they're normally foreigners, all of whom are cheating "us": foreign referees, like that Dane who sent Beckham off, or "incompetents" like Sven, greasy diving cheats (sic) like Ronaldo etc etc etc. The inability to dump the blame at anybody other than Englishmen at this time of failing must make it tougher for some, esp. many in Fleet Street.

To be fair Harvs, you hate most aspects of the England team and England fans, and not much is going to change your mind now.

Blaming referees for bad decisions (and in internationals, they always will be from other countries) is just mother's milk to a football fan. You could argue that the way Ronaldo is now feted here as one of the world's greatest players despite everything that happened shows the English are big enough to change their minds, he might not have survived somewhere else.

Must admit, with my betting head on I backed Croatia last night as 'disaster insurance', because I couldn't believe the best team in the group were 7-1 against our shower, though I'd happily hand it all back this morning for qualification.

As regards 'Fleet Street', the area I would like to change - and you're hinting at it - is the almost daily elevation of some of these players to demi-god status by journalists, especially in the tabs. If Fat Frank goes out and scores a couple against a crap side like Derby at the weekend, he will get gutless arse-lickers saying what a world-beater he is again, when we've just seen he clearly isn't. I'm afraid to say some of that is to do with a much bigger picture of news control by clubs and PR companies, and if you don't say nice things you don't get to speak to people. It's shite.

When these players deserve criticism, they should get it but they can't handle it any more. For example, imagine what would happen if the new England manager took about five or six aside, people like Lampard and Joe Cole, and said 'You failed us, you're out for the foreseeable future'. Journalists with vested interests would slam him for what might be a bold, brave move.

 

[Man of Harveys]

To be fair Harvs, you hate most aspects of the England team and England fans, and not much is going to change your mind now.

That's weird, I never actually realised that myself, probably because it's a load of old, not to mention slightly sore crap. A crap with piles, say.

Although to be fair, I do actually really hate cheap jingoism, as well as an arrogance bred by both far too much money and also by insularity, plus a related refusal to acknowledge that your opponents might also be quite good and worth respecting, studying, worth knowing a bit about, not just dismissing with that over-reaching phrase "we really should beating sides like these". If those are "aspects of the England team and fans", then guilty, because I don't like them and I think you can often see them in England's approach to the international game. I actually mean that entirely constructively (seriously) because I personally doubt England will get much better until those problems in attitude get addressed.

For the record, I actually think it's a massive and terrible shame for the whole tournament they won't be there next year. But I just reckon it might also be necessary for England to step back in order to move forward.

Anyway, bloody cheating foreigners, we invented the bloody game, get that prick out, get them foreigners out of our league etc etc. Hope that's better.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I don't see too many fans or media types coming out with this stuff. It largely disappeard when Sven was axed.

I don't think England under-rated the Croats and it appears that everyone is very clear this morning the problem is that were not a very good TEAM.

 

[Man of Harveys]

As regards 'Fleet Street', the area I would like to change - and you're hinting at it - is the almost daily elevation of some of these players to demi-god status by journalists, especially in the tabs. If Fat Frank goes out and scores a couple against a crap side like Derby at the weekend, he will get gutless arse-lickers saying what a world-beater he is again, when we've just seen he clearly isn't. I'm afraid to say some of that is to do with a much bigger picture of news control by clubs and PR companies, and if you don't say nice things you don't get to speak to people. It's shite.

When these players deserve criticism, they should get it but they can't handle it any more. For example, imagine what would happen if the new England manager took about five or six aside, people like Lampard and Joe Cole, and said 'You failed us, you're out for the foreseeable future'. Journalists with vested interests would slam him for what might be a bold, brave move.

I could not agree more, it's awful, it's counterproductive and it totally ties in with what you've said before about these bent pocket-lining managers not giving interviews. Who can ever give these players the reality check then? How do you discipline an inarticulate 25 year old multimillionaire whose entire family never need work again? Money seriously messes people up. The tragedy of McLaren's reign is, I have to guess, his complete irrelevance to "his" players in the dressing room.

I hate to say it, but the sight of next summer's TV schedules are more likely to shake these overpaid tarts up more than any new England manager, or even today's headlines, can. I reckon they need it.

 

[Simster]

The accusation that Fleet St indulges our players because not to do so means not getting a look in, is a very fair one. So I have a serious question - does the media work very differently in Germany and Italy?

And on that subject, it really rankles with me that Taggart is allowed to get away with not speaking to the BBC because someone was nasty to him once. The stupid f***ing prick.

 

[Tooting Gull]

That's weird, I never actually realised that myself, probably because it's a load of old, not to mention slightly sore crap. A crap with piles, say.

Although to be fair, I do actually really hate cheap jingoism, as well as an arrogance bred by both far too much money and also by insularity, plus a related refusal to acknowledge that your opponents might also be quite good and worth respecting, studying, worth knowing a bit about, not just dismissing with that over-reaching phrase "we really should beating sides like these". If those are "aspects of the England team and fans", then guilty, because I don't like them and I think you can often see them in England's approach to the international game. I actually mean that entirely constructively (seriously) because I personally doubt England will get much better until those problems in attitude get addressed.

For the record, I actually think it's a massive and terrible shame for the whole tournament they won't be there next year. But I just reckon it might also be necessary for England to step back in order to move forward.

Anyway, bloody cheating foreigners, we invented the bloody game, get that prick out, get them foreigners out of our league etc etc. Hope that's better.

Fair dos, and I agree with a lot of that, but I do think you are bit quick to label anyone supporting England as xenophobic. Some undoubtedly may be, but not all. Surely it's possible to believe that the limited opportunities for young English players in the Premier League is not helping the national team, without being a BNP card-carrying racist. Equally, that with our resources we should be getting more points than Israel in a group.

 

[Man of Harveys]

The accusation that Fleet St indulges our players because not to do so means not getting a look in, is a very fair one. So I have a serious question - does the media work very differently in Germany and Italy?.

I don't know at all about Italy, but in Germany it's just a totally different game: you have only one tabloid, Bild, which is almost cartoonishly but therefore also rather harmlessly patriotic, although I'd say it's generally not insulting to other countries. I don't think too many people reading it would think "that's it, we're easily better than them" as a result - it's more "come on Germany!", followed by "horror show! A night to forget in Munich as England run riot!", that sort of thing - a very comic book approach.

The telly plays a very straight game - there's no gobby, thick "who are we playing again" equivalent to Ian Wright: it's far more analytical and strategic and (I think this is crucial) they take a genuine and respectful interest in all aspects of their opponents: in things like the stadium and the town, as well as the players, their clubs etc. There's something assuringly old-fashioned about it, it's slightly reminiscent, as is much of the game (ticket prices, terraces etc) of the pre-Sky era here.

And the same thing goes for the single biggest difference, which is money, pure and simple: German players, aside from Ballack and Lehmann, just don't earn that much - Klose's summer transfer from Bremen to Bayern, for example, was shocking to many, because he'd initially pretended it wasn't just about the money, when it was - something which wouldn't shock anybody here. They get roundly bollocked by managers, often in public, so they're accountable, to their club and country as well as to their fans - it sounds obvious, but compare that with what Tooting said about getting access to the pampered rich, by cossetting them and their retinue etc.

Sorry for the long post. Plus they just play better.

 

[Mr Blobby]

Its shouldn't be just McClaren and Venables getting the sack. The FA board should also resign. Barwick is the biggest muppet of them all. Kermit would do a better job, even Miss Piggy and she is a girl and they know nothing about football, yet thats still slightly more than Barwick!