gerrard, one of the greatest modern footballers

[Working class pride]

Both fantastic players.

Both did very little in England shirts.

Scholes was played out wide when he should have been pulling the strings in the middle. Gerrard was just not good enough at international level. His ball control let him down. Running around doesnt get you very far at a world cup. Its about being in the right place at the right time. Scholes had that, Gerrard didnt. I know, I should be England manager as I see things they clearly dont ..

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Scholes was played out wide when he should have been pulling the strings in the middle. Gerrard was just not good enough at international level. His ball control let him down. Running around doesnt get you very far at a world cup. Its about being in the right place at the right time. Scholes had that, Gerrard didnt. I know, I should be England manager as I see things they clearly dont ..

Gerrard didn't have the brains to be a top player.

If you could combine lampards brain and his ability you would have some player

 

[Working class pride]

Gerrard didn't have the brains to be a top player.

If you could combine lampards brain and his ability you would have some player

and Lampard's ball control as its better than Gerrard's. Either way all tis fuss about Gerrard just shows why England have a poor side. People just cant spot a player. How they put Scholes out wide and built a team around Gerrard with his ball control just shows everything that is wrong with English football. Clueless.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

and Lampard's ball control as its better than Gerrard's. Either way all tis fuss about Gerrard just shows why England have a poor side. People just cant spot a player. How they put Scholes out wide and built a team around Gerrard with his ball control just shows everything that is wrong with English football. Clueless.

We must be the only country where effort and running around is seen as a pro of a player, not just the norm.

The amount of rubbish someone like Berbatov got for not running around was unreal, despite being twice the player Rooney is.

 

[spring hall convert]

There's a lot of myths around Gerrard but let me say this first, he's clearly one of the finest English players of his generation and rightly or wrongly will be seen as a National team legend just by virtue of the sheer number of caps.

However, have a look at that West Ham team he "single handedly" beat in the FA cup Final, they were CRAP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FA_Cup_Final) There's no way Liverpool should ever have been in that spot in the first place.

The Champions League final - it could be argued that it was Hamann's introduction to do the job Gerrard should have been doing in the first half that resurrected Liverpool.

A succession of failure at international level... I don't think he had a better game for England than '01 against Germany - that should have been the launch pad.

And the high profile mistakes culminating in THAT howler that lost Liverpool the title last year.

 

[Working class pride]

We must be the only country where effort and running around is seen as a pro of a player, not just the norm.

The amount of rubbish someone like Berbatov got for not running around was unreal, despite being twice the player Rooney is.

Agreed, but Rooney is a different type of player. Better in midfield in my view, and Ive said that for years. As for Gerrard he is not a bad player. In fact a good player. But that is all. He is a good player. He was not even the best midfielder in England, he was not even close the Scholes and he would not have got in Barca's B team. He was not in any shape or form world class. Always pissed me off that they ruined the england team by thinking it was all about Gerrard and it clearly made Scholes think "well if they put me out wide and leave Gerrard in the middle then there is nothing I can achieve with these muppets". If he did then I wouldnt blame him.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Souness,Keegan and Dalgleish were better players and that's just Liverpool players

throw in Gazza,Worthington,Bryan Robson,Hoddle,Brooking and Tony Currie

not sure where he'd feature in an all time British list,top 25 I'd thought (forgot Becks,although another overrated player in my view)

Gerrard or Scholes,I'd go for Gerrard,but I'd pick all of the above before Gerrard

Well here's a go at a top 25 ( post 1945 )....in no particular order.
Matthews, Finney, Edwards, Wright, Haynes, Greaves, Mackay, Law, Charlton R, Best, Banks, Moore, Keegan, Dalglish, Rush, Robson, Jennings, Brady, Hoddle, Gascoigne, Shilton , Lineker, Shearer, Keane, Scholes.
( and that's leaving out plenty more who were better than Gerrard...e.g Baxter, Bremner, Giles, Johnstone, Brooking, McGrath, Hansen, Lawrenson, Souness, Currie, Osgood, Worthington, Cooper, Beardsley, Ball, Peters, Blanchflower, McIlroy, Charles, Francis and so on and so on.... )
I know you said British and I've included some from ROI ( but Roy Keane was too good to leave out and McGrath and Lawro were top drawer )

 

[NorthStandSteward]

Well here's a go at a top 25 ( post 1945 )....in no particular order.
Matthews, Finney, Edwards, Wright, Haynes, Greaves, Mackay, Law, Charlton R, Best, Banks, Moore, Keegan, Dalglish, Rush, Robson, Jennings, Brady, Hoddle, Gascoigne, Shilton , Lineker, Shearer, Keane, Scholes.
(

How many of them did you actually see play?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Its a really interesting question because I can't think of a club footballer who has been so important to their club and so involved in all their great moments - the team revolves around him and when they've been great its because of him - and you can't get much greater than a champions league final, and they were so so close to the league title last year.

But he was disappointing for England, continuously playing at a luch lower level than he did for Liverpool, and for no obvious reason - is he really that arrogant that he's rubbish if its not all about him? I don't believe so. Part of me goes back to that Euro 2004 defeat to France which imo was the critical moment for the 'golden generation' - it was his backpass that led to the decisive penalty, he never really did much for England since that moment. But that seems a bit pat

 

[NorthStandSteward]

he would not have got in Barca's B team.

Interesting given than Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester United have all chased his signature.

 

[Working class pride]

Its a really interesting question because I can't think of a club footballer who has been so important to their club and so involved in all their great moments - the team revolves around him and when they've been great its because of him - and you can't get much greater than a champions league final, and they were so so close to the league title last year.

But he was disappointing for England, continuously playing at a luch lower level than he did for Liverpool, and for no obvious reason - is he really that arrogant that he's rubbish if its not all about him? I don't believe so. Part of me goes back to that Euro 2004 defeat to France which imo was the critical moment for the 'golden generation' - it was his backpass that led to the decisive penalty, he never really did much for England since that moment. But that seems a bit pat

All anyone had to do was watch him run around and struggle to control the football. If anyone couldnt see Scholes was head and shoulders above him and that Rooney and Scholes should have made up the midfield with Lampard the first choice third in a triangle and Gerrard on the bench then I just cant follow. I said it at the time as well. The England managers had talent to use, they just read the newspapers too much.

 

[Working class pride]

Interesting given than Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester United have all chased his signature.

You have no idea who chased what, and nor do I. But I do know his ball control was not good enough to get close to Barca's youth team never mind B team. Typical English box to box player. OK at a certain level. The same as Bryan Robson, highly over rated and just the wrong type of footballer to be of any use at a world cup where its about ball control and reading the game.

 

[GT49er]

The anti-scouser stuff on here is amazing. If Hyypia had been a roaring success down here, there are some that would still be calling him a bin-dipper because of his Liverpool connection.

I would have loved to have seen Gerrard in a Brighton shirt, anytime (even next season, though I know it won't happen). Great player, loyal to his club. They don't make many like that these days. More's the pity.

 

[jay d]

Obviously you know better HT, but.
Zinedine Zidane believes Liverpool's Steven Gerrard is currently the best player in the world, eclipsing Lionel Messi of Barcelona and Manchester United's Cristiano Ronaldo. The former France and Real Madrid midfielder saw Gerrard score twice against his old club in the Champions League during the week and said teams need players like Gerrard to be the "engine room" for the flair players to thrive, comparing the Liverpool captain to his former team-mate Claude Makelele.
"Is he the best in the world? He might not get the attention of [Lionel] Messi and Ronaldo but, yes, I think he just might be," Zidane said. "If you don't have a player like Steven Gerrard, who is the engine room, it can affect the whole team.

Great player was zidane but that was his opinion and i guess some would disagree

 

[jimbob5]

good playground player. average in the international stadia

 

[Working class pride]

The anti-scouser stuff on here is amazing. If Hyypia had been a roaring success down here, there are some that would still be calling him a bin-dipper because of his Liverpool connection.

I would have loved to have seen Gerrard in a Brighton shirt, anytime (even next season, though I know it won't happen). Great player, loyal to his club. They don't make many like that these days. More's the pity.

Anti scouser ? Id like to have seen him play for Brighton as well, but whilst I love the Albion, playing for Brighton against Brentford is not the benchmark of a world class player. All we are sayiong is that he was a good player. Typical box to box player and he has his place, but world class? He wasnt even close to being the best in England. Thats not anti scouser, its just how it is, as the world cups proved. He should have made the bench for England behind a Scholes, Rooney and Lampard triangle. He just was not world class. In my opinion like.

 

[Frutos]

Interesting given than Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester United have all chased his signature.

Yet he didn't go to any of them...admirable loyalty to Liverpool or an unambitious preference for being the big fish in the (comparitively, these days at least) smaller pond where he wouldn't be pushed as much.

Not saying either way, just a bit of Devil's Advocate...

 

[NorthStandSteward]

You have no idea who chased what, and nor do I. But I do know his ball control was not good enough to get close to Barca's youth team never mind B team. Typical English box to box player. OK at a certain level. The same as Bryan Robson, highly over rated and just the wrong type of footballer to be of any use at a world cup where its about ball control and reading the game.

You're absolutely right mate. He never got as far as discussing personal terms with Real Madrid, he was never on the verge of signing for Chelsea, Fergie never described him as "the most influential player in English football". Ancelotti never described him as one of the best players in the world, Hiddink never described him as the best midefielder in the world, Patrick Vieira never conceded that Gerrad was the superior player etc . . .


Interesting that so many people praise his loyalty but yet criticise him for not winning titles.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

if real madrid were actually chasing him they would've got him. loyalty or not, if they really want someone they get him (only exception is barcelona players or players that barcelona are also chasing). They probably thought there were better options around and they were correct

 

[Working class pride]

You're absolutely right mate. He never got as far as discussing personal terms with Real Madrid, he was never on the verge of signing for Chelsea, Fergie never described him as "the most influential player in English football". Ancelotti never described him as one of the best players in the world, Hiddink never described him as the best midefielder in the world, Patrick Vieira never conceded that Gerrad was the superior player etc . . .


Interesting that so many people praise his loyalty but yet criticise him for not winning titles.

Did they? Well goes to show, but so much shit gets talked in the press, its all smoke and mirrors. Do you seriously think he was better than Scholes or Rooney in midfield? Do you seriously think he was good enough for England never mind Barca? Cloud cuckoo land, his ball control was just not up to it and nor was his position sense. Look at Scholes, little diving in, he nicked the ball off players and played the right ball. That is how to play midfield not running around box to box.