[News] George Floyd trial

[Easy 10]

The police bodycam footage is very revealing in giving the full context of how this played out from the start to the (tragic) finish. Floyd was not aggressive towards the cops at all, but put up a hell of a lot of resistance when they were trying to get him into the back of the police car. Floyd was pleading claustrophobia and that the "couldn't breathe" even as they were attempting to get him into the back of that car, to the extent that they were dragging him in, and due to his resistance ended up dragging him right through to the other side, onto the ground, which was where Chauvin ended his life. The fact he was already saying "I can't breathe" when he was half sat in the back of the police car is probably the reason Chauvin took it with a pinch of salt when Floyd was saying it again as he had him down.

Chauvin still bang to rights. One of the other officers even said "flip him over?" long after he'd become unresponsive and his pulse was being checked. "Nah" or something similar was the response. Chauvin cannot be allowed to get away with this.

 

[McTavish]

Incorrect, he was sat in the drivers seat of his/someone's vehicle having a drug meltdown that's why the police arrested him.

No, they arrested him for passing a fake bank note.

 

[Weststander]

The police bodycam footage is very revealing in giving the full context of how this played out from the start to the (tragic) finish. Floyd was not aggressive towards the cops at all, but put up a hell of a lot of resistance when they were trying to get him into the back of the police car. Floyd was pleading claustrophobia and that the "couldn't breathe" even as they were attempting to get him into the back of that car, to the extent that they were dragging him in, and due to his resistance ended up dragging him right through to the other side, onto the ground, which was where Chauvin ended his life. The fact he was already saying "I can't breathe" when he was half sat in the back of the police car is probably the reason Chauvin took it with a pinch of salt when Floyd was saying it again as he had him down.

Chauvin still bang to rights. One of the other officers even said "flip him over?" long after he'd become unresponsive and his pulse was being checked. "Nah" or something similar was the response. Chauvin cannot be allowed to get away with this.

Asking for a reasoned view from you, please.

Once Floyd was under control, why did Chauvin continue to restrict his airway with his knee, in the end for an eternity?

I can’t think of a valid reason, only that it was incredibly dangerous.

 

[neilbard]

No, they arrested him for passing a fake bank note.

Agreed, but he was behaving irrationally at the wheel of a vehicle and not listening to the officers, the maximum penalty in the state of Minnesota for passing counterfeit bills is $1000 fine or 1 year imprisonment.

Forging checks of $250 or less is punishable by up to one year in jail and a $3,000 fine, but when the amount of the check exceeds $250, the penalty increases to up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

Floyd allegedly passed a $20 counterfeit bill.

 

[Easy 10]

Asking for a reasoned view from you, please.

Once Floyd was under control, why did Chauvin continue to restrict his airway with his knee, in the end for an eternity?

I can’t think of a valid reason, only that it was incredibly dangerous.

I cannot see any valid reason for that whatsoever. He was cuffed from behind, he had not been in any way aggressive, other than being very "awkward" in resisting them as they attempted to get him into the back of the police car he died under.

It became apparent after a few minutes, when Floyd ceased begging, that he was in a lot of trouble. The guy on the street who was filming it and repeatedly saying "you're killing him bro" was completely blanked by Chauvin, not even acknowledged. Perhaps Chauvin simply didn't want to be seen to be "standing down" to the plea's of a mere passer by, when he was in complete control of the situation. Perhaps an element of pig-headedness crept in.

I thought that after I saw the phone footage, and if anything the bodycam footage reinforces it. Even at the suggestion of one of his colleagues to flip Floyd over, he didn't want to know. Despite Floyd being completely unresponsive by then.

 

[Weststander]

I cannot see any valid reason for that whatsoever. He was cuffed from behind, he had not been in any way aggressive, other than being very "awkward" in resisting them as they attempted to get him into the back of the police car he died under.

It became apparent after a few minutes, when Floyd ceased begging, that he was in a lot of trouble. The guy on the street who was filming it and repeatedly saying "you're killing him bro" was completely blanked by Chauvin, not even acknowledged. Perhaps Chauvin simply didn't want to be seen to be "standing down" to the plea's of a mere passer by, when he was in complete control of the situation. Perhaps an element of pig-headedness crept in.

I thought that after I saw the phone footage, and if anything the bodycam footage reinforces it. Even at the suggestion of one of his colleagues to flip Floyd over, he didn't want to know. Despite Floyd being completely unresponsive by then.

Thanks.

My take on Chauvin ignoring the concerned bystanders is similar. A macho and arrogant, “I’m not going to be told what to do” attitude.

 

[Easy 10]

Thanks.

My take on Chauvin ignoring the concerned bystanders is similar. A macho and arrogant, “I’m not going to be told what to do” attitude.

That was my reading of it, and how I'd be interpreting it if I was sat on the jury seeing the footage I saw yesterday and today. Any underlying heart issues and/or substances he had taken that day was not why he died IMO. He was right as rain (albeit distressed) before Chauvin choked the life out of him.

If Floyd had just gone and sat in the police car, he'd probably be alive today. Another black guy walking by and seeing the struggle with the police officers at the car said to Floyd "you can't win man, you can't win", to which Floyd replied "I ain't trying to win". But for whatever reason, he continued to struggle and resisted getting in.

That does not absolve that officer from subsequently committing 2nd degree murder though.

 

[neilbard]

That was my reading of it, and how I'd be interpreting it if I was sat on the jury seeing the footage I saw yesterday and today. Any underlying heart issues and/or substances he had taken that day was not why he died IMO. He was right as rain (albeit distressed) before Chauvin choked the life out of him.

If Floyd had just gone and sat in the police car, he'd probably be alive today. Another black guy walking by and seeing the struggle with the police officers at the car said to Floyd "you can't win man, you can't win", to which Floyd replied "I ain't trying to win". But for whatever reason, he continued to struggle and resisted getting in.

That does not absolve that officer from subsequently committing 2nd degree murder though.

This point is undeniable, not sure he will be convicted of any murder though, chances are it will be manslaughter. Autopsy will be key.

 

[Easy 10]

This point is undeniable, not sure he will be convicted of any murder though, chances are it will be manslaughter. Autopsy will be key.

Under the definition of 2nd degree murder, regardless of the autopsy report, I reckon he'll be convicted of both. That video evidence is a hard watch, and I'd certainly need a LOT of persuading that the knee on his neck was not the direct cause of his death that evening. A lot.

I don't know what kind of sentence that would carry - I gather he's potentially up for a max of 40 years (as the State are going for 2nd + 3rd + MS) but would guess if he's convicted of 2nd degree + manslaughter he'll get around half that maybe. Depends on the judge dunnit.

 

[neilbard]

Under the definition of 2nd degree murder, regardless of the autopsy report, I reckon he'll be convicted of both. That video evidence is a hard watch, and I'd certainly need a LOT of persuading that the knee on his neck was not the direct cause of his death that evening. A lot.

I don't know what kind of sentence that would carry - I gather he's potentially up for a max of 40 years (as the State are going for 2nd + 3rd + MS) but would guess if he's convicted of 2nd degree + manslaughter he'll get around half that maybe. Depends on the judge dunnit.

Police in Minneapolis are still allowed to kneel on a suspect's neck under the department's use-of-force policy,

but it can only be used by officers who have been trained on how to do so without putting direct pressure on the airway.

 

[Easy 10]

Police in Minneapolis are still allowed to kneel on a suspect's neck under the department's use-of-force policy,

but it can only be used by officers who have been trained on how to do so without putting direct pressure on the airway.

Thats as maybe, but I'll repeat what I said yesterday:

"Second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life."

For me, that is a direct interpretation of what played out. Chauvin had a lack of concern for human life. He had the best part of 5 minutes to lift his knee after Floyd became unresponsive. He had several bystanders imploring that he get his knee off Floyds neck. He had a police colleague taking Floyds pulse and suggesting he flip him over. He did NONE of this, and only relinquished the hold when a stretcher from the ambulance arrived next to - what was by then - the body.

On that evidence, which you can see play out with your own eyes, how can you not convict of 2nd degree and manslaughter ?

 

[neilbard]

Thats as maybe, but I'll repeat what I said yesterday:

"Second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life."

For me, that is a direct interpretation of what played out. Chauvin had a lack of concern for human life. He had the best part of 5 minutes to lift his knee after Floyd became unresponsive. He had several bystanders imploring that he get his knee off Floyds neck. He had a police colleague taking Floyds pulse and suggesting he flip him over. He did NONE of this, and only relinquished the hold when a stretcher from the ambulance arrived next to - what was by then - the body.

On that evidence, which you can see play out with your own eyes, how can you not convict of 2nd degree and manslaughter ?

I could, but will an American jury?

 

[dadams2k11]

Regardless of someone's background, they do not deserve to have a police officer, kneel on the neck, restricting their airways, until they die.

4 officers there, and not one of them carried out the oath they took, that day. They are there to protect, not arm.

 

[NooBHA]

Just watch the entire video that I posted up earlier. It's over 1 hour long, officer pulls a crack pipe from his pocket.

If you also look at the video you posted carefully.

You can also see at the start of the video the veins in his arms are bulging full of blood. Part way through the video you can visibly see that blood is no longer pumping to those veins in his arms. He is visibly dying in front of him and those veins are prominent initially and as he gradually dies. That is as clear as day for anyone with any medical aid training just by watching those veins on his arms alone.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Looking at the state of Chauvin can't help but think of that documentary about the out of control use of steroids in the US Police and how it influences their policing.

 

[neilbard]

If you also look at the video you posted carefully.

You can also see at the start of the video the veins in his arms are bulging full of blood. Part way through the video you can visibly see that blood is no longer pumping to those veins in his arms. He is visibly dying in front of him and those veins are prominent initially and as he gradually dies. That is as clear as day for anyone with any medical aid training just by watching those veins on his arms alone.

I agree, but my point is, he was being arrested for a small felony, why the strong resistance which clearly contributed to his tragic death,

he clearly isn't claustrophobic as he was sitting behind the wheel of a vehicle when they arrested him.

 

[neilbard]

Looking at the state of Chauvin can't help but think of that documentary about the out of control use of steroids in the US Police and how it influences their policing.

Agree, but for balance maybe Floyd should have curbed his drug abuse...

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I agree, but my point is, he was being arrested for a small felony, why the strong resistance which clearly contributed to his tragic death,

he clearly isn't claustrophobic as he was sitting behind the wheel of a vehicle when they arrested him.

Seems like a question rather than a point.

Perhaps making your point would be a good start.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Agree, but for balance maybe Floyd should have curbed his drug abuse...

Whataboutery not balance.

 

[Easy 10]

I agree, but my point is, he was being arrested for a small felony, why the strong resistance which clearly contributed to his tragic death,

he clearly isn't claustrophobic as he was sitting behind the wheel of a vehicle when they arrested him.

"I ain't going back man, I can't go back"

He had a rap sheet, he'd done time. He was clearly terrified of being incarcerated again. All he'd done that evening is pay for some cigarettes with a counterfeit $20 bill, a minor felony, something he'd likely have got a ticket for and a fine. But when they cuffed him and started trying to bundle him into the back of a police car, he just panicked. And one officer then used deadly force to suppress him.