[Help] General question on deposit for building work

[portlock seagull]

What exactly does this mean. The Builder asks for a deposit to reserve a slot and buy raw materials. The deposit is paid and a written receipt is received. Where does that fall?

When he doesn’t turn up and start the job!

 

[Uncle C]

When he doesn’t turn up and start the job!

Exactly.

Does that represent a contract?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Companies House will tell you if he’s solvent

 

[Weststander]

If it was a big job, I would disagree with NB (not that he'd expect any different ) and, I'd agree stage payments, groundworks complete, first story build, weatherproofed, internals etc, to cover materials but definitely nothing up front.

Sorry.

This.

The one exception is where you've committed to bespoke items eg skylights or unique windows/doors, but want the builder to acquire them. It's unlikely they have a trade credit account with a specialist, who'll themselves require payment up front.

Otherwise do not pay ahead of a job starting. They're using your cashflow, when their existing jobs if they're run properly should meet working capital.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

What exactly does this mean. The Builder asks for a deposit to reserve a slot and buy raw materials. The deposit is paid and a written receipt is received. Where does that fall?

It fails because construction contracts don’t cater for upfront payments. If the builder doesn’t have trade contract with his suppliers which normally state 30. day payments from delivery, he has cash flow problems

 

[Balders]

Companies House will tell you if he’s solvent

at one given moment in time - this will be the last audited accounts which could be as old as 12-16mths!

 

[Weststander]

at one given moment in time - this will be the last audited accounts which could be as old as 12-16mths!

Steve Parish's annual trick.

 

[folkestonesgull]

I've always paid for materials directly myself on a trade account and then paid the builders weekly for work.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Yep throw in:
1. A dose of Covid, first for the builder, followed by his workers
2 Got delayed at another job
3. Got called back to a previous customer
4. Mobile phone went flat
5. Have to service my Council contracts first - they are my bread and butter
6. Wife will send over the refund tomorrow when she goes to the Office. (said on several occasions)
7. Council have not paid us and we have no money at the moment.
8. Will deliver the raw materials that I have bought for your job tomorrow (said on several occasions)
9. My labourers are very unreliable
10. Stuck in London
11. Running a bit behind
12. I have let myself down badly
13. Lost your Bank details

Name and shame

 

[Uncle C]

Companies House will tell you if he’s solvent

First year of trading under a new name when he moved to our area. So no accounts submitted yet.

 

[Uncle C]

Name and shame

Not relevant as well outside of Brighton catchment area.

 

[Uncle C]

Today is the final day I have given him for my refund

Here is the essence of my next steps which I will inform the builder of at midnight. Incidentally I have found at least one previous customer who under similar circumstances, got his refund by threatening to break his legs.

Small Claims Court
The Courts legal fees and £200, to cover my admin costs, will be added to the bill

Internet
Its not difficult to tarnish the reputation of any business

Local press
We have a contact in the local newspaper who is showing interest in a story about how two Pensioners were duped out of their money by a local business.

HMRC
We are happy to convey conversations we had with xxx about which payments he selects to declare for tax purposes

VAT Department
We will advise them of conversations which took place with xxx about how he selects the jobs he chooses to charge and declare for VAT.

Croydon Council
We will contact them to make them aware of the way that xxxxxx xxxxxx Ltd runs its business.

Bankruptcy
If you cannot pay your Company debts then we will seek advice on getting you declared Bankrupt.

Trading Standards
I'm sure will show an interest in this case

 

[dsr-burnley]

A builder insists on a deposit before starting any building work and then fails to even start that work

Is it theft by deception, fraud, or is there another legal term to sum up the situation.

Thanks

I think it's only fraud if there's deliberate deception. And even if there is, it would be impossible to prove.

This would be breach of contract, not a criminal offence, and it's a civil matter.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

First year of trading under a new name when he moved to our area. So no accounts submitted yet.

Personally, I wouldn’t use him. If you decide to, suggest that you go with him to his trade suppliers and pay for the materials yourself, as this will make them your property when delivered. He’ll lose his margin trade vs retail, but that’ll be his choice.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Incidentally I have found at least one previous customer who under similar circumstances, got his refund by threatening to break his legs

There's a more subtle way of doing this. A friend of mine happened to have access to a rather posh car, so he got two more of his friends to help out. One of them - a big bloke, a rugby forward, put on dark glasses and a suit and drove the car. The other sat in the back. They drove up to where the builder was working, and the chauffeur got out of the car and opened the back door for the other bloke to casually get out and say "you owe my associate John Smith £x, and he wants it back. Tomorrow." Then got back in the car and drove off.

No threats were offered at all, but he got the money the same day.

 

[Uncle C]

Personally, I wouldn’t use him. If you decide to, suggest that you go with him to his trade suppliers and pay for the materials yourself, as this will make them your property when delivered. He’ll lose his margin trade vs retail, but that’ll be his choice.

That ship has sailed,

Unfortunately at present its not a buyers market. Even finding a builder to show up and quote is almost impossible. Give them any excuse not to do your job and they will take it.

 

[Uncle C]

There's a more subtle way of doing this. A friend of mine happened to have access to a rather posh car, so he got two more of his friends to help out. One of them - a big bloke, a rugby forward, put on dark glasses and a suit and drove the car. The other sat in the back. They drove up to where the builder was working, and the chauffeur got out of the car and opened the back door for the other bloke to casually get out and say "you owe my associate John Smith £x, and he wants it back. Tomorrow." Then got back in the car and drove off.

No threats were offered at all, but he got the money the same day.

Not sure I believe old wives tales like this.

 

[Balders]

That ship has sailed,

Unfortunately at present its not a buyers market. Even finding a builder to show up and quote is almost impossible. Give them any excuse not to do your job and they will take it.

Been like it since the start of Covid and most definitely a major contributory factor in our nightmare - Mrs B wanted it doing and we experienced the very same.....

 

[Questions]

Well I’m going back to this job where I’ve had my trouble and taking my doors back very soon. It’ll be a bit of a job to board up the hole though but she’ll manage I suppose.
Thank god Ive never felt the need to go on Checkatrade (what a joke they are)

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

That ship has sailed,

Unfortunately at present its not a buyers market. Even finding a builder to show up and quote is almost impossible. Give them any excuse not to do your job and they will take it.

Sorry, I should’ve read your original post more carefully. Was there anything recorded in writing about the deposit?