[Politics] General Election 2024 - 4th July

[ROSM]

If I were ever Prime Minister I would pass a law that TV and radio vox pops should broadcast extracts that are representative of the views they heard and should also end by saying we spoke to x people and this is how their comments ranged. For too long media believe balance is showing more extreme (in range if not political) views

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I did find that amusing given that the 2019 election was called so that the Tories could get a clear majority to do as they wished.

Give it another few weeks and the Tories will be backing the Liberals and Greens over PR.

After all, that would be more fair.

 

[Gwylan]

- I fear KS will be a weak commander. Unlike the NHS, not in his DNA.

Several people have commented on Starmer being weak. I'm curious to know where this idea has come from. I can't say I'm a big fan of everything he's done but I can't argue with his story. The fella comes from an ordinary background (OK, he's piled on the toolmaker a bit thick but he's still not privileged brat), went to state school and a red-brick uni (although to Oxford for his postgraduate work).

He them became a lawyer and not just any lawyer - the head of the CPS. He then went into politics, became leader of his party in fewer than five years and since then he has taken Labour from their worst defeat in about 90 years to a position where they're predicted to win by a landslide -having rooted out the Corbynistas. That's not a history that suggests a weak personality.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Michael Howard on R5 now claiming that we have record taxes under the Tories because we had to (Covid) but with labour we will have record taxes because this is what Labour wants.

OK, mate

 

[golddene]

I’m going to assume you are young(ish), under 35 perhaps? The vast majority of media are not FAR right wing, just like the vast majority of Tories are not scum, or even the likes of Rees Mogg and Redwood are not actually Nazis.

The vast majority of what gets labelled as ’far right’ these days, was in fact perfectly normal 20 or 30 years ago. If you actually truly believe that John Major (centerist right), Margxxet Thaxxcher (right) or David Cameron (centerist right) were actually evil, nasty fascists then you only show your own political naivety.

started writing a full response then my iPad juiced out and what I’d written was lost !!
In short, you’d assume massively wrongly, I’ve children that are probably older than you, and I won’t take any lessons from someone who helped heap this clusterfuck on my fellow British residents and me only to EFF off to the other side of our planet at the first opportunity and spend the next how many years supporting this situation without having any experience or first hand knowledge of the disaster you helped create or carnage my fellow Britains including all immigrants whether legal or otherwise have suffered both financially and morally from the last seven plus years of the rule aided by you. Thank you.

 

[Weststander]

Several people have commented on Starmer being weak. I'm curious to know where this idea has come from. I can't say I'm a big fan of everything he's done but I can't argue with his story. The fella comes from an ordinary background (OK, he's piled on the toolmaker a bit thick but he's still not privileged brat), went to state school and a red-brick uni (although to Oxford for his postgraduate work).

He them became a lawyer and not just any lawyer - the head of the CPS. He then went into politics, became leader of his party in fewer than five years and since then he has taken Labour from their worst defeat in about 90 years to a position where they're predicted to win by a landslide -having rooted out the Corbynistas. That's not a history that suggests a weak personality.

I hope KS s a strong PM who is able to get all his ministers producing tangible change. I want every PM (bar Truss) to succeed on the economy, otherwise we in the end suffer. The real test will be when crises come. Putin, China, Trump will attempt to make the world divided and angry.

 

[Bodian]

So the tory trope now is that we "must not give labour unfettered power. They will raise takes on mortgages, pensions, VAT, everything. Who knows what they would do? ".

This is wankery.

Give it a few days and the Tory trope will be "Don't vote for Muslim Dalek Labour. They will kill you and eat you. Fact!"

Their argument seems to be now that if something is not specifically mentioned as being 'ruled out' in the Labour Manifesto, then it means that there is a secret plan to do what they haven't ruled out.

OK - Trott seems to relate this to just Capital Gains Tax, but there is a huge list of things that aren't mentioned in the manifesto, so do we assume there is a secret plan to bring back capital punishment, legalise cannabis/murder (whatever) and so on? Or as this chap puts it....

 

[abc]

-five years of soporific politics where everyone is calm

I think you are far to optimistic but that would be wonderful!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Their argument seems to be now that if something is not specifically mentioned as being 'ruled out' in the Labour Manifesto, then it means that there is a secret plan to do what they haven't ruled out.

OK - Trott seems to relate this to just Capital Gains Tax, but there is a huge list of things that aren't mentioned in the manifesto, so do we assume there is a secret plan to bring back capital punishment, legalise cannabis/murder (whatever) and so on? Or as this chap puts it....

Indeed.

Apparently (channeling the pre 2010 part of the Alice Roberts thread, now), Melinda Messenger hasn't ruled out giving me a soapy tit-wank.

 

[A1X]

Lucky nephew but I imagine the vast majority had mortgages and other expenses that would have ruined them without furlough. Beating Sunak with a stick because he introduced furlough is a step too far imo.

I don’t criticise him for doing it, but I absolutely do and will continue to criticise him talking about it as if he did it out of the goodness of his heart, rather than it being the only option available which wasn’t watching millions of people lose their jobs and thousands of companies go to the wall basically overnight.

It’s like wanting to be praised by the people of Birmingham for not dropping a nuclear bomb on the place.

 

[Happy Exile]

On Monday I spent a bit of time chatting with a relatively moderate long-standing Tory councillor in a (not around here) constituency that's been Tory since time began. She was very glum and said that there was concern in the party that this election could "end" the Tories. This was before the poll came out with them behind Reform, but she said she was hearing from a lot of her friends around the country that if they won <100 seats, the Lib Dems held seats while winning the majority of places they came 2nd last time, and Reform even getting a couple of seats, and the party would implode.

Her concern was that'd mean a Braverman and Farage coalition in opposition with them becoming the backbone of a re-formed Tory party, which is a horrible thought, and that her main hope for the Tory party getting votes now was that enough pensioners disliked Farage for everything he is and disliked the idea of Starmer supporting assisted dying. In her view, "not even Boris could save us now, but no-one wants him to. If the answer is Boris then we've already failed".

 

[tricky]

Several people have commented on Starmer being weak. I'm curious to know where this idea has come from. I can't say I'm a big fan of everything he's done but I can't argue with his story. The fella comes from an ordinary background (OK, he's piled on the toolmaker a bit thick but he's still not privileged brat), went to state school and a red-brick uni (although to Oxford for his postgraduate work).

He them became a lawyer and not just any lawyer - the head of the CPS. He then went into politics, became leader of his party in fewer than five years and since then he has taken Labour from their worst defeat in about 90 years to a position where they're predicted to win by a landslide -having rooted out the Corbynistas. That's not a history that suggests a weak personality.

Hi Gwylan, just to be pedantic - I dont think Starmer did go to a state school. I'm pretty sure it was reigate grammar, which is the most expensive private school around me.

 

[Audax]

In her view, "not even Boris could save us now, but no-one wants him to. If the answer is Boris then we've already failed".

i think the thing is ... this was true when he was first brought in as PM. As much as he won them a landslide in the 2019 GE, we just have to look at everything that has happened since then to know he wasn't the answer to the problems we faced (whether as a country or if you're a Tory). The problem is ... even back then, they didn't have anyone left in the party with the political nous to take them in a better direction. All they had left was Boris.

 

[Audax]

Hi Gwylan, just to be pedantic - I dont think Starmer did go to a state school. I'm pretty sure it was reigate grammar, which is the most expensive private school around me.

It wasn't when Keir started there. It was state funded at the time, and converted to an independent fee-paying school while he was there. Even after it converted into a fee-paying school, he was exempt from paying until he turned 16; and even then, his fees were paid for by the school's charity.

What Reigate Grammar is today is not relevant to what it was when Keir attended.

 

[wellquickwoody]

started writing a full response then my iPad juiced out and what I’d written was lost !!
In short, you’d assume massively wrongly, I’ve children that are probably older than you, and I won’t take any lessons from someone who helped heap this clusterfuck on my fellow British residents and me only to EFF off to the other side of our planet at the first opportunity and spend the next how many years supporting this situation without having any experience or first hand knowledge of the disaster you helped create or carnage my fellow Britains including all immigrants whether legal or otherwise have suffered both financially and morally from the last seven plus years of the rule aided by you. Thank you.

Which clusterfuck are you alluding to?

 

[golddene]

Hi Gwylan, just to be pedantic - I dont think Starmer did go to a state school. I'm pretty sure it was reigate grammar, which is the most expensive private school around me.

You are quite correct, Reigate grammar school became a fee paying establishment during Sir Kiers time spent there after he took and passed his eleven plus exam and won a place there. This was before it became fee paying and his education there prior to them becoming a private fee paying entity was paid for from the state education budget.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Flynn speaks well, is obviously a principled person and makes a positive case for rejoining the SM. If only Labour had a leader like that, rather than the wet lettuce they do have. Starmer and his weak soporific politics is going to lead us to a right wing super majority led by Farage/Braverman in 5 years time. I will put a bet on it.

Wow.

I would have thought that the thing most likely to drive the UK's great unwashed element into the arms of the right wing lunatics in 5 years is a Labour party that prioritizes caving into (sorry, creating deals with) the EU.

What makes you think that remainers who want an SM deal will flock to Brexit Zealots if they don't get it? That would be counter-intuitive would it not? A bit like f***ing for virginity.

 

[Giraffe]

Interesting article here from John Curtice, election guru.

John Curtice on the Farage effect

Reform UK is gaining ground in the polls since the former UKIP leader's decision to stand as a candidate.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Flounce]

You are quite correct, Reigate grammar school became a fee paying establishment during Sir Kiers time spent there after he took and passed his eleven plus exam and won a place there. This was before it became fee paying and his education there prior to them becoming a private fee paying entity was paid for from the state education budget.

Hence him thinking it’s OK to charge VAT on private school fees on people who pay for their kid’s education rather than using the free system. Disgusting imo, much like making people who pay for private health care (already in place under the Conservatives) to have to pay for it again as a benefit in kind. Is it fair to penalise and tax people who are NOT using the free system?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Which clusterfuck are you alluding to?

I suspect @golddene means Brexit.