General Election 2017

[Deleted member 22389]

There's no doubt that the Labour party is in a mess. I won't be voting for them, but I do think it's a shame that people are dismissing these policies out of hand as fantasy - we do have levers to raise money through taxation: an extra penny or two in tax for those earning more than £80k would not be significant to those taxpayers, and a rise in corporation tax would be easily accommodated. I haven't done the maths, but some of these policies seem to be affordable and to support a fairer society. People seem to baulk at the idea of a "redistribution of wealth", but this is what all progressive taxation is and I think you'd have to be pretty solipsistic to not want to pay any tax or to encourage a regressive form of taxation.

How about we go for the hard brexit and then implement these policies on top to keep everyone happy.

 

[nicko31]

There's no doubt that the Labour party is in a mess. I won't be voting for them, but I do think it's a shame that people are dismissing these policies out of hand as fantasy - we do have levers to raise money through taxation: an extra penny or two in tax for those earning more than £80k would not be significant to those taxpayers, and a rise in corporation tax would be easily accommodated. I haven't done the maths, but some of these policies seem to be affordable and to support a fairer society. People seem to baulk at the idea of a "redistribution of wealth", but this is what all progressive taxation is and I think you'd have to be pretty solipsistic to not want to pay any tax or to encourage a regressive form of taxation.

For the 16m in the UK that has less than £100 in savings, Labour is still the party of choice.

 

[tinycowboy]

For the 16m in the UK that has less than £100 in savings, Labour is still the party of choice.

Well, you'd think so - so if they are losing some of that core vote (which anecdotal evidence seems to suggest, but we'll have to wait and see), something has gone very wrong and they need to do something about it or we'll be stuck with the same party in power for the next ten years.

 

[Buzzer]

Even though it's actually Capitalism...

And you've just proven how accurate that flow chart is. Chavez and then Maduro's government nationalised whole sectors, set up public company monopolies, have complete control of the central bank, has onerous regulations on the private sector businesses it didn't seize yet you're saying that it isn't really socialism.

 

[tinycowboy]

How about we go for the hard brexit and then implement these policies on top to keep everyone happy.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but if somehow it turns out to be a genius move, then why not!

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Corporation Tax is where we should be looking at. Receipts were £56bn last year. A 1% increase would bring in an extra £3bn with little risk of companies moving their taxes offshore.

£3bn is a drop in the ocean. About enough to run the NHS for 9 days.

 

[jcdenton08]

I'd love an alternative on the national level to the Tories. There isn't one. I'm voting Tory. If I lived in Eastbourne, I'd vote for Stephen Lloyd (Lib Dem), fantastic constituency MP. But I wouldn't know Tim Farron from the Prime Minister of Norway. What does he DO?

 

[beorhthelm]

this is the problem with Labour policy from the leaked manifesto: 250bn to spend on infrastructure. there's nothing specific, just an open cheque to spend ~25bn a year, unfunded from taxation. they claim they'll maintain fiscal responsibility "day-to-day", but that directly conflicts with this policy.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'd rather take my chances with that than a very small minority of morally bankrupt scumbags keeping it to themselves, whilst the majority of the population suffer as a result.

I have to question your sanity if you'd rather this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-39871694 - over what we have here in the UK ! Bizarre !!!!

 

[Titanic]

this is the problem with Labour policy from the leaked manifesto: 250bn to spend on infrastructure. there's nothing specific, just an open cheque to spend ~25bn a year, unfunded from taxation. they claim they'll maintain fiscal responsibility "day-to-day", but that directly conflicts with this policy.

or more likely they just won't do it.

 

[Buzzer]

£3bn is a drop in the ocean. About enough to run the NHS for 9 days.

Yes you're right. The point I was trying to make and failed to was that that Corp Tax would be where I would look when talking about austerity. George Osborne cut disability benefit to the tune of £4bn a year. I think it's almost obscene that when coming up with a way of making an extra £4bn someone would rather take from the very poorest and most vulnerable rather than a small increase to one of the lowest tax rates in Europe. Actually, scrub that - it IS obscene.

 

[Fungus]

And you've just proven how accurate that flow chart is. Chavez and then Maduro's government nationalised whole sectors, set up public company monopolies, have complete control of the central bank, has onerous regulations on the private sector businesses it didn't seize yet you're saying that it isn't really socialism.

And you've just proven how inaccurate your definition of socialism is.

 

[Buzzer]

And you've just proven how inaccurate your definition of socialism is.

Control of the means of production, the market and central bank isn't socialism? I'd genuinely like to know what you think that is and also hear your definition of socialism .

 

[Lower West Stander]

Oil in Venezuela accounts for 95% of exports and 50% of GDP. In Mexico oil is 10% of exports. It's historic failure to invest domestically. This could not have been changed overnight with a high oil price. Now there is no chance with oil at mid $40s a barrel from within Venezuela.

Are you seriously suggesting that Venezuela is in anarchic meltdown because of the low oil price and that its nothing to do with Chavez and Maduro?

Seriously

 

[Jim D]

Has anyone actually worked out how much these promises would cost - and how much corporation tax and income tax would need to rise? Even assuming that tax income remained stable​ I would expect massive rises - which are far more likely to drive the target payers offshore.

 

[Stat Brother]

Has anyone actually worked out how much these promises would cost .

£350m a week?

 

[Mellotron]

Tory response to Labour manifesto - Where is the money coming from?

Leaver response to Remainer worries about leaving the EU - We're the FIFTH richest economy in the WORLD! We'll be totally fine!

If you are a Tory and a Leaver, which is it? You can't have both. Either the money IS there to implement the Labour manifesto, OR we are economically ****ed by leaving the EU.

Saying we can't afford these things when plenty of European countries with smaller economies yet much greater life satisfaction can....the maths doesn't quite add up, does it?

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Tory response to Labour manifesto - Where is the money coming from?

Leaver response to Remainer worries about leaving the EU - We're the FIFTH richest economy in the WORLD! We'll be totally fine!

If you are a Tory and a Leaver, which is it? You can't have both. Either the money IS there to implement to Labour manifesto, OR we are economically ****ed by leaving the EU.

Saying we can't afford these things when plenty of European countries with smaller economies yet much greater life satisfaction can....the maths doesn't quite add up, does it?

Good point.

Read the actual policies here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39879113

One that caught my eye...

"Free school meals for all primary school children, paid for by removing the VAT exemption on private school fees"

UTTER, UTTER MADNESS....

 

[Mellotron]

Good point.

Read the actual policies here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39879113

One that caught my eye...

"Free school meals for all primary school children, paid for by removing the VAT exemption on private school fees"

UTTER, UTTER MADNESS....

Why do they get a VAT exemption? Those poor private school guys, they need all the help they can get!

 

[Fungus]

Control of the means of production, the market and central bank isn't socialism? I'd genuinely like to know what you think that is and also hear your definition of socialism .

Government control, markets and banks have nothing to do with Socialism. Go back to basics - common ownership, not state ownership. Production for use, not profit. Free access to goods, no currency, no exchange, no borders, no nations. Etc, etc. I'm sure you've heard it all before, so I'm not going into a long definition. Obviously, that's nothing like Chavez and Maduro's experiment, and I'm sure you're not really surprised when people say "that's not socialism". It's state capitalism.