General Election 2015

[Herr Tubthumper]

You really buy into this class warfare, bash the rich bollox don't you? I'm not well off a regular worker, but I'm also not blinded by the politics of envy. His statement is common sense, the economy will be ruined under labour's plans, held hostage by the SNP, they will stop growth, recovery will end, productive job creation will stop. Debt will rise, that has to be paid by someone some day as well as interest today, taxes on poorest will rise. Interventions in free markets are a disaster and when the well meaning policy's end in a ruined economy with massive debt and deficit, everyone including the poorest suffer and cuts are an inevitable consequence of mismanagement. Industry creates jobs not governments. I don't have anything against labour's social policy's, but rich bashing, interventionist politics doesn't benefit the country. only labour ideologues

I don't have an issue with wealth per se, I do have an issue with social fairness though. And minimum wages and 6-hour contracts are not fair. The rest of your post is a mass of cliches and a contradiction.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That MIGHT be true...so what is the answer ?

My answer, tax the fella a bit more, introduce a legal living wage and abolish zero/minimal hours contracts.

 

[glasfryn]

That MIGHT be true...so what is the answer ? Tax the tory to high heaven which makes him withdraw his company overseas and throws those who have work on the dole...the left want to destroy Murdoch empire...yet he has many thoundsands on his employment rota...would you want to throw them out of work as well...is it just a Labour thing that wants to destroy the Golden Goose.
By your politics of envy every Tory is rich and the working class are poor...tell that to Labour millionaires...
Doesn't matter where you go in the world someone will always be richer than others...get over it,make youy self richer.
What is your definition of poor...Family up the road from me have 2 widescreen teles,the four kids have an X box,all have iPhones,they keep four dogs,,they smoke,have crates of beer in,been raided for drugs and yet claim food parcels,never done a days work,are a constant drain on society whilst the millionaires company is paying thousands into the system.

they are not poor they are just p1ss takers, I wonder which way they vote?

 

[Triggaaar]

And the Tories have ruled out a deal with UKIP.

The Lib Dems have ruled out being involved in any sort of government with the SNP

So that means the likely scenarios are

What that means, is that the Tories want those who are choosing between UKIP and Tory to vote Tory, otherwise they'll get Labour. And the Lib Dems want those who are anti SNP to vote Lib Dem rather than Labour, to be sure that the SNP don't have too much influence. It doesn't mean that the parties will stick to what they say. If the Tories could form a government, but only with UKIP, I'm sure they would.

 

[glasfryn]

What that means, is that the Tories want those who are choosing between UKIP and Tory to vote Tory, otherwise they'll get Labour. And the Lib Dems want those who are anti SNP to vote Lib Dem rather than Labour, to be sure that the SNP don't have too much influence. It doesn't mean that the parties will stick to what they say. If the Tories could form a government, but only with UKIP, I'm sure they would.

if I feel there is any chance that UKIP will form some sort of allience with the tories and this is stated before the election I will change my vote to Green rather than UKIP

 

[Ernest]

[/B][/U]they are not poor they are just p1ss takers, I wonder which way they vote?

If in fact thet exist and not a case of reading the Sun or watching C5 too much

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of interest Herr T, do any of the parties in Germany rule out some parties they would work with in a coalition ? I just find it rather pathetic that here the SNP have ruled out working with the Tories for example. Thank god Nick Clegg didn't do that previously.

Spoke to some friends last night and various parties do rule of working with each other prior to elections....and then change their minds later. As mentioned, the big statement last time was the SDP leader saying he wouldn't work with Merkel. He subsequently stood down which allowed his party to then link up with the CDU. Interestingly the SDP members (the rank and file) were allowed to vote on the coalition.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25382122

 

[Mr Bridger]

If in fact thet exist and not a case of reading the Sun or watching C5 too much

Are you saying these people don't exist?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That MIGHT be true...so what is the answer ? Tax the tory to high heaven which makes him withdraw his company overseas and throws those who have work on the dole...the left want to destroy Murdoch empire...yet he has many thoundsands on his employment rota...would you want to throw them out of work as well...is it just a Labour thing that wants to destroy the Golden Goose.
By your politics of envy every Tory is rich and the working class are poor...tell that to Labour millionaires...
Doesn't matter where you go in the world someone will always be richer than others...get over it,make youy self richer.
What is your definition of poor...Family up the road from me have 2 widescreen teles,the four kids have an X box,all have iPhones,they keep four dogs,,they smoke,have crates of beer in,been raided for drugs and yet claim food parcels,never done a days work,are a constant drain on society whilst the millionaires company is paying thousands into the system.

And no doubt they had the four kids purely to get a council house.

 

[glasfryn]

Are you saying these people don't exist?

Oh they probably exist its just the question of who they vote for

while I was in the Labour Party in Brighton I did a stint at the polling station at the bottom of the Avenue in Bevendean.
standing next to a tory councillor having a chat when he said hello looks like plenty of votes for you here, described by him as typical Labour voters, parents both disabled, older children, one disabled, well you get the picture.
when they came out from voting they came straight to me and asked if I was the tory, I pointed to the other guy, they shook hands with him and went on their way.
never,never judge a book, especially in politics

 

[Soulman]

from BBC:

Sir Charles Dunstone, the chairman of Carphone Warehouse and a former supporter of new Labour, suggested that an Ed Miliband victory would put the UK's economic recovery under threat.

he said: "I really felt I had to speak out as our economic recovery truly hangs in the balance.

"For me the choice is clear. And it is not a choice between backing business on the one hand and promoting fairness on the other. There is nothing progressive about attacking business and undermining our economy.

"If the economy fails, frankly it is not the richest who suffer, it's the poorest.

"It would be a huge and tragic irony if well-meaning people ended up hurting the most deprived in our country. But that is what I fear would happen with a Labour-SNP government - one that is anti-business, anti-aspiration and pro-spending money we haven't even earned yet."

Indeed. What a scary prospect Labour, and joined with the SNP.......really scary.

 

[glasfryn]

Indeed. What a scary prospect Labour, and joined with the SNP.......really scary.

they might vote with them occaisionally, and basically when they want to keep the tories out, there are no done deals and even if there were only the tories will worry about it .............................................certainly not me

 

[Ernest]

Are you saying these people don't exist?

Job seekers allowance is £72 a week so tell me how these people afford all these luxuries ?

 

[Eeyore]

Dick Knight has featured in a video for the Caroline Lucas campaign, backing her re-election.

 

[Mr Bridger]

Job seekers allowance is £72 a week so tell me how these people afford all these luxuries ?

No , you are right they don't exist, sorry my mistake.

 

[Ernest]

No , you are right they don't exist, sorry my mistake.

You didn't answer the question , how can people afford all these luxuries on £72 a week ?

 

[Mr Bridger]

You didn't answer the question , how can people afford all these luxuries on £72 a week ?

you sound like a politician.. in denial because its suits your political view.

I would imagine the majority of people that have posted on this thread know's of someone who is claiming benefit that is living beyond their means, thinking how the f@ck can they afford to afford this or that.

 

[peterward]

That MIGHT be true...so what is the answer ? Tax the tory to high heaven which makes him withdraw his company overseas and throws those who have work on the dole...the left want to destroy Murdoch empire...yet he has many thoundsands on his employment rota...would you want to throw them out of work as well...is it just a Labour thing that wants to destroy the Golden Goose.
By your politics of envy every Tory is rich and the working class are poor...tell that to Labour millionaires...
Doesn't matter where you go in the world someone will always be richer than others...get over it,make youy self richer.
What is your definition of poor...Family up the road from me have 2 widescreen teles,the four kids have an X box,all have iPhones,they keep four dogs,,they smoke,have crates of beer in,been raided for drugs and yet claim food parcels,never done a days work,are a constant drain on society whilst the millionaires company is paying thousands into the system.

I agree with your sentiment though the family up the road from you is an extreme example and sound like theyre bent.

Nearly all of Labour's policy has been written by millionaire champagne socialist career politicians.

Helping the poorest and neediest in society should be the goal of every government, redistributing wealth also fairly. But making enemies of anyone with money is not in countries or the poorest best interest. Whatever you think of the rich - those in that top 1% of earners over £150k (most of the Albion first team!) pay 30% of all income tax to the treasury. They are vital to paying for public services we need and a 0.5% cut in richer tax payers buggering off can result in a 15% reduction in taxes raised.

50p tax rate - I wouldn't personally care if it's 30p or 90p for those over £150k as I'll likely never earn it, but it's common sense to get the maximum revenue there will be a best rate, in economics its called "the Laffer curve". If you try and sell a football for £100 nobody will buy, for £1 you'll lose money, you want to get the price that gets the maximum return. If top rate tax is to high many internationally mobile will leave as has happened in France as happened when 70's labour tried to "tax the rich until the pips squeek". and they pay a massive % of the overall tax take. You can end up with much less in the treasury for schools and the NHS from such miscalculated gambits.

But all analysis I've read says 45p tax vs 50p does nothing to raise more money or to save money, there is a band of "true elasticity' (margin of error) in revenue gained/lost + spending v's people leaving/coming and its impossible to prove if it will make or save anything, with some predicting 50p would raise up to 100 mill from Labour and some Torys and economists saying 45p actually raises up to 400 million.

So why do it? Because it appeals to the core class warfare labour "bash the rich..them and us" voter and can be framed in a "tax cut for millionaires" soundbite even though there is no proof any more would end up in treasury for the things that matter and much of the extra money in pockets from 45p will be spent in uk businesses and VAT will be charged making yet another 20%.

the 50p rate assumes everyone will stay, but naturally they wont, so why piss off the group that pays 30% of all taxes?

tackle evasion for sure but if you wage class warfare without sound reasoning, there is a high chance those you claim to represent will be worse off not better with less tax take.

Non Doms - I bet nobody knows one or cares about them. It makes sense to remove the hereditary handing down of non dom status to those born here, but going after those that put over 8 billion a year into the treasury?

If you fly on hols this summer and 90% of pax paid £200 but 10% of seats were unsold, the airline would be dumb not to discount the last 10% of seats rather than have them empty earning nothing. Maybe the other 90% of pax may feel hard done by as, but the airline is making more by having them filled than empty.

I couldn't give a hoot if non dom status is banned if it can be proven there's a benefit to the state coffers to be spent on essential services, but there is none. ed balls said it would lose money as many of these Saudi princes/oligarchs or whoever they are will bugger off, taking their tax revenue and spending power with them and there's no thorough report on how much we'd lose or gain with such a move and as 8 billion is exactly the amount of the Sir Simon Stephens report, NHS shortfall. Why not instead pledge to spend it there whilst doing thorough research on merits/pitfalls of removing non dom status. It's 8 billion of real money. not a juvenile 6th form put the world to rights game.

Of course it also It doesn't suit the labour narrative of rich bashers, who cares if the money is lost and less goes to essential services, we're class warriors, we want to attack the wealthy at any cost, it's them v us comrade.

The current labour party acts in the best interests of the party, not the country. Their dumb interventionist policies may resonate with politically clueless soundbite generation, but they will wreck the economy and ALL will end up with being worse off.

Socialism is a great ideology. I was a fierce Marxist in later teens.
Affordable socialism in a capatilist globalised world, with competent debt reducing, low borrowing, growth based economic management is a utopian pipe dream.
Massive borrowing, debt riddled economic calamity, stifling the economy and business for ideological and not business reasons, leaving behind a devastated mess where all suffer is the reality of party first socialism put forward by Red Eds old labour and the SNP

 

[Hampster Gull]

Things are ticking along well considering Cameron is no great shakes. Helpful Ed is no better. Clegg has made clear he wont work with the SNP and UKIP and I think he is absolutely right. Ed needs the SNP and if he goes there he will lose all credibility in England. If he manages to pull it off with them expect an independent Scotland a few years later. Fortunately it has been going the conservatives way over the last couple of months, despite the desperate one off polls the Earnest brings out.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Helping the poorest and neediest in society should be the goal of every government, redistributing wealth also fairly. But making enemies of anyone with money is not in countries or the poorest best interest. Whatever you think of the rich - those in that top 1% of earners over £150k (most of the Albion first team!) pay 30% of all income tax to the treasury. They are vital to paying for public services we need and a 0.5% cut in richer tax payers buggering off can result in a 15% reduction in taxes raised.

I agree on these points. By the way Germany has lower tax rates for those over £150k married with two kids and a mortgage. They know that making scapegoats out of those who earn the most does not mean society is better off. We need proper catch for those worst off and (I would add no NI as well as no income tax which the conservatives and liberals are supporting) and the right incentive to work. The key is economic growth which pulls everyone with it. Labour have proved that are not competent with the economy, the main reason why Ed made that the core of his election so far despite not even mentioning it a few months ago in his leaders speech to his party.