General Election 2015

[pastafarian]

Here you go.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/aug/21/nhs-figures-reveal-fewer-nurses

David Cameron has cut the NHS budget for two years running and we are now seeing the effects of this on the ground in the NHS. On his watch, we have seen the NHS lose nurses at a rate of 200 per month as hospital trusts make kneejerk cuts to the frontline."

Without trying to politicise what is in the Guardian link about nurses leaving to join the private sector

The drop in nursing numbers is significant because it represents in part a shift from state employment to working for private companies and charities. Nursing is moving out of hospitals and into the community, where staff work for private firms or the voluntary sector but are paid for by the NHS

can i just say have you considered this from the point of view of someone who needs a nurse/carer. My own (personal) view of when my father was receiving a NHS nurse/carer straight out of hospital is not the greatest. These were days when i was concerned he had lost the plot to carry on and he was subjected to different people on different days like a conveyor belt,no empathy,no nothing,just a case of get the job done,there was no improvement in his health and i feared the worst.
He was then moved onto a private company run care system,when he was told the system was overloaded.This was still NHS paid for,He has never looked back,neither have i,he received first class care,from a dedicated nurse,who had done just this ,move into the private sector from the NHS.His health improved dramatically and he is looking at his continued season ticket at the Amex.

Taking off the political blinkers for a second can you not see some sort of justification for services to be free to the patient and outsourced to private companies or should it remain solely NHS......Surely the care should be the overwhelming factor.I am fully aware my experience may not mirror that of others

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Without trying to politicise what is in the Guardian link about nurses leaving to join the private sector

The drop in nursing numbers is significant because it represents in part a shift from state employment to working for private companies and charities. Nursing is moving out of hospitals and into the community, where staff work for private firms or the voluntary sector but are paid for by the NHS

can i just say have you considered this from the point of view of someone who needs a nurse/carer. My own (personal) view of when my father was receiving a NHS nurse/carer straight out of hospital is not the greatest. These were days when i was concerned he had lost the plot to carry on and he was subjected to different people on different days like a conveyor belt,no empathy,no nothing,just a case of get the job done,there was no improvement in his health and i feared the worst.
He was then moved onto a private company run care system,when he was told the system was overloaded.This was still NHS paid for,He has never looked back,neither have i,he received first class care,from a dedicated nurse,who had done just this ,move into the private sector from the NHS.His health improved dramatically and he is looking at his continued season ticket at the Amex.

Taking off the political blinkers for a second can you not see some sort of justification for services to be free to the patient and outsourced to private companies or should it remain solely NHS......Surely the care should be the overwhelming factor.I am fully aware my experience may not mirror that of others

And that's what annoys me about 'no private companies in the NHS' argument. My partner needed a surgical procedure a couple of years ago and was sent to a private hospital by the NHS. The treatment and care was fantastic .... far better than you get in an NHS hospital. Yet her treatment was effectively under the NHS - i.e. she paid nothing. I'd rather get better care and a private company get a bit of profit than worse care but stick with the outdated principle that none of the NHS should be run by the private sector. Just as long as it's still free at the point of delivery and and provides equal or better quality than the NHS then I have no issue with the NHS OUTSOURCING to private companies.

 

[yxee]

You're right, Labour want a bigger state and the Tories want virtually no state.

If you think that then you're kidding yourself.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/04/08/uk-britain-election-poll-idUKKBN0MZ2CX20150408

Labour in the lead!

Bozza, can you post your usual bookmaker's odds please. I think I'll have myself some more of the money they're giving away.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Here you go.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/aug/21/nhs-figures-reveal-fewer-nurses

David Cameron has cut the NHS budget for two years running and we are now seeing the effects of this on the ground in the NHS. On his watch, we have seen the NHS lose nurses at a rate of 200 per month as hospital trusts make kneejerk cuts to the frontline."

I'll let you get away with some things but that's just a lie. Your source is from 2012!

This is a fact checking website - no bias.
http://theconversation.com/fact-che...rs-and-nurses-than-before-the-coalition-39607

Verdict

In summary, the coalition has changed the composition of the NHS workforce, getting rid of almost 20,000 managers and support staff. But Cameron has over-claimed the increase in front-line staff: the number of doctors has increased by 7,293 not 9,000 and the number of nurses by 6,434, not 7,000.
Which I think we would all agree is fantastic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'll let you get away with some things but that's just a lie. Your source is from 2012!

This is a fact checking website - no bias.
http://theconversation.com/fact-che...rs-and-nurses-than-before-the-coalition-39607

My link is lies, yet yours tells the truth. Excellent stuff. I might use this argument myself.

 

[alfredmizen]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/04/08/uk-britain-election-poll-idUKKBN0MZ2CX20150408

Labour in the lead!

Bozza, can you post your usual bookmaker's odds please. I think I'll have myself some more of the money they're giving away.

You're a bit thick aren't you ?

 

[Hampster Gull]

So if you can't make an educated guess whether the Tories would have been better or worse during the global recession then I'm sure you can equally argue that you can only guess whether the last five years would have been worse or better under Labour. It cuts both ways.

What I do know is how labour regulated the city and ran its deficits and I do know the consequences. The worst recession in a 100 years. we are only just back to where we were. They are accountable. They have form. Look up the 1970s when they lost control to their union barons.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It seems the UKIP vote is collapsing. Looks like his sweaty and uninformed performance on the tv has affected him.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're a bit thick aren't you ?

It helps to use this retort when someone has posted something a bit stupid, like I did with you. I will now add unimaginative to my list of alfredmizen adjectives.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

My link is lies, yet yours tells the truth. Excellent stuff. I might use this argument myself.

Don't worry there is more! Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
Spending in the English NHS budget (only one Conservatives control) has increased and will continue to increase.

Where in the Welsh NHS controlled by Labour health spending was cut in real terms by 4.3% from 2009-13. Although thankfully there is now a planned cash injection!

Simply on this one you were wrong - there are more doctors (16% increase), nurses (2% increase) and GPs (4.5% increase) not like you had suggested.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

My link is lies, yet yours tells the truth. Excellent stuff. I might use this argument myself.

Errr ?? Your link only goes to 2012 yet B4C3 goes to 2014. So quite clearly there are more nurses and doctors than there were in 2010 - unless maths in Germany is different ?

 

[Common as Mook]

And that's what annoys me about 'no private companies in the NHS' argument. My partner needed a surgical procedure a couple of years ago and was sent to a private hospital by the NHS. The treatment and care was fantastic .... far better than you get in an NHS hospital. Yet her treatment was effectively under the NHS - i.e. she paid nothing. I'd rather get better care and a private company get a bit of profit than worse care but stick with the outdated principle that none of the NHS should be run by the private sector. Just as long as it's still free at the point of delivery and and provides equal or better quality than the NHS then I have no issue with the NHS OUTSOURCING to private companies.

100% this. The notion that a private company can't provide what th NHS can is utter nonsense and I have had similar experiences in the NHS.

It's purely dogmatic resistance because some companies dare to post a profit from it.

 

[addseo1119]

Glad to know great competition here. I have enjoyed with your conversation. Thanks all.

 

[drew]

Don't worry there is more! Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
Spending in the English NHS budget (only one Conservatives control) has increased and will continue to increase. View attachment 64453

Where in the Welsh NHS controlled by Labour health spending was cut in real terms by 4.3% from 2009-13. Although thankfully there is now a planned cash injection!

Simply on this one you were wrong - there are more doctors (16% increase), nurses (2% increase) and GPs (4.5% increase) not like you had suggested.

Maybe some analysis of the NHS in Wales would help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29745559

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Maybe some analysis of the NHS in Wales would help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29745559

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30881328 - from this report in January.
Different approaches have been adopted. England (and Scotland) have protected NHS spending which has seen some small real terms growth over the last four years. Not so in Wales, where health spending has been cut in real terms by 4.3% between 2009/10 and 2012/13, although there have now been further cash injections in 2014/15 and planned for 2015/16 to reverse this trend.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/04/08/uk-britain-election-poll-idUKKBN0MZ2CX20150408

Labour in the lead!

Bozza, can you post your usual bookmaker's odds please. I think I'll have myself some more of the money they're giving away.

Don't you think that labour are doing a terrible job? Against a backdrop of general dissatisfaction with the coalition, the opposition should be reaping the benefits enormously. Interesting how according to the polls labour's support has leached away.

 

[beorhthelm]

Here you go.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/aug/21/nhs-figures-reveal-fewer-nurses

David Cameron has cut the NHS budget for two years running ...

can you show us in where the cuts are hiding in this graph . ffs, for 5 years they have been ring fencing the health budget to the determent of all other departments, but Labour still perpetuate the claim that the budget has been cut.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Don't you think that labour are doing a terrible job? Against a backdrop of general dissatisfaction with the coalition, the opposition should be reaping the benefits enormously. Interesting how according to the polls labour's support has leached away.

Red ed is not doing a good job but it's incredibly hard to move an incumbent on when there actually doing a good job. Most people get that and whilst it will be super tight in part due to growth in the smaller parties I fully expect a return of Tories and Libs.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

can you show us in where the cuts are hiding in this graph . ffs, for 5 years they have been ring fencing the health budget to the determent of all other departments, but Labour still perpetuate the claim that the budget has been cut.

In real terms it has.