Gbp 1 = eur 1.40

[Herr Tubthumper]

The EU sells more to us than we do to them, they would be insane to put this trade in jeopardy.

But it's the opposite for services and financial services especially. Here the UK runs a major surplus. So, your argument falls flat on its face for what is by far the UK's biggest economic sector. As you say, it would be insane to put this in jeopardy.

 

[Surf's Up]

Living high on the hog here in Spain atm!!!

 

[cunning fergus]

But it's the opposite for services and financial services especially. Here the UK runs a major surplus. So, your argument falls flat on its face for what is by far the UK's biggest economic sector. As you say, it would be insane to put this in jeopardy.

I agree it's in all parties interests to come to a solution that maintains this position.

The pro EU side would have us believe this trade is at risk if the referendum is a NO, but it's not, as you Tories know only too well money talks.

If it is a NO will all need to just keep calm and carry on, punitive action by the EU in the face of a democratic mandate is counter productive all round.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So, what's the tourist rate now?

1.3930

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree it's in all parties interests to come to a solution that maintains this position.

The pro EU side would have us believe this trade is at risk if the referendum is a NO, but it's not, as you Tories know only too well money talks.

If it is a NO will all need to just keep calm and carry on, punitive action by the EU in the face of a democratic mandate is counter productive all round.

But money doesn't talk in this situation and proof is the EU has a very long term established policy of only offering financial firms in non-EU countries – including Switzerland – limited cross-border access to EU markets predicated on strict conditions. But only European Economic Area membership (the Norway position) offers full access. This also involves accepting all the EU rules but without a chance to vote on them though. Your argument simply doesn't hold for what is the UK's biggest economic sector. It will be economic suicide.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I never get why the anti EU mob keep sighting Switzerland as an example to follow. Switzerland and the UK are simply not comparable. Not in the same league. It's like being Jeremy Bates and looking for a coach to make you Roger Federer. It's just not possible.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

1.3930

Very nice indeed. we're off to France in July

 

[cunning fergus]

But money doesn't talk in this situation and proof is the EU has a very long term established policy of only offering financial firms in non-EU countries – including Switzerland – limited cross-border access to EU markets predicated on strict conditions. But only European Economic Area membership (the Norway position) offers full access. This also involves accepting all the EU rules but without a chance to vote on them though. Your argument simply doesn't hold for what is the UK's biggest economic sector. It will be economic


But the UK has to accept EU rules now that are not voted through by our Parliament, and they don't suit our economic and/or political interests.

The Capital Requirements Regulations, which is part of the Capital Requirements Directive are a case in point, the UK Government disagreed with the scope of the what the Commission proposed but the regulations still went through. These changes had a greater affect on the UK than any other EU country.

MiFID II and the Data Protection Regulations are shaping up to be more of the same, so this situation is the worst of both worlds, we pay billions to to be IN but still don't have sufficient influence to get the rules we want.

This situation will get worse in the forthcoming years because those countries in the eurozone will want to protect their interests to protect the currency, which is understandable. The so called Tobin tax is a current case in point, and would essentially be free money for the EU largely at the expense of the UK's financial services industry.

Better to lance the boil now, being outside the eurozone but in the EU in the forthcoming years is going to be a difficult place to exert influence on EU policy as you well know.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But the UK has to accept EU rules now that are not voted through by our Parliament, and they don't suit our economic and/or political interests.

The Capital Requirements Regulations, which is part of the Capital Requirements Directive are a case in point, the UK Government disagreed with the scope of the what the Commission proposed but the regulations still went through. These changes had a greater affect on the UK than any other EU country.

MiFID II and the Data Protection Regulations are shaping up to be more of the same, so this situation is the worst of both worlds, we pay billions to to be IN but still don't have sufficient influence to get the rules we want.

This situation will get worse in the forthcoming years because those countries in the eurozone will want to protect their interests to protect the currency, which is understandable. The so called Tobin tax is a current case in point, and would essentially be free money for the EU largely at the expense of the UK's financial services industry.

Better to lance the boil now, being outside the eurozone but in the EU in the forthcoming years is going to be a difficult place to exert influence on EU policy as you well know.

I do agree we don't have power and influence. But this is more down to the UK's feebleness than anything else. Why do you think France and Germany dominate everything currently? It's because they want to, they engage and are good negotiators. Not bothering, then moaning when things don't go your way will not get you very far......as is currently being shown. On paper the UK has as much power as France....the UK simply need to use it and then things will generally go your way.

And as I clearly pointed out, the UK will almost certainly lose a large part service and financial services trade surplus if it withdraws. So your point about Tobin tax will be a moot one if we withdraw. I can't currently see where they will sell 80b of services to; I can see Frankfurt rubbing their hands though.

You have found a single item for your argument. But, as with most things in life, it's about the bigger picture and the overall balance of things. Sure there are some things which don't work, but overall I feel more things do work. And as I have explained there are huge financial advantages.

 

[cunning fergus]

I do agree we don't have power and influence. But this is more down to the UK's feebleness than anything else. Why do you think France and Germany dominate everything currently? It's because they want to, they engage and are good negotiators. Not bothering, then moaning when things don't go your way will not get you very far......as is currently being shown. On paper the UK has as much power as France....the UK simply need to use it and then things will generally go your way.

And as I clearly pointed out, the UK will almost certainly lose a large part service and financial services trade surplus if it withdraws. So your point about Tobin tax will be a moot one if we withdraw. I can't currently see where they will sell 80b of services to; I can see Frankfurt rubbing their hands though.

You have found a single item for your argument. But, as with most things in life, it's about the bigger picture and the overall balance of things. Sure there are some things which don't work, but overall I feel more things do work. And as I have explained there are huge financial advantages.

I don't think it's feebleness, I think it's a cultural and political issue, namely that the UK has never been a fully engaged member of the EU project.

This is partly the nature of the project itself, however it's also about the dishonesty of British politicians over the last 30 years in explaining what was actually going on.

Tony Blair took a different course with our relationship, however ultimately he was just as dishonest as (by way of example) we have seen from the huge numbers of Eastern Europeans who have moved to the UK in the last 10 years.............and all without a by your leave with the electorate. The fallout of this stance could contaminate the Labour Party for generations.

I accept that there are lots of moving parts to the EU and they may not all be bad, however overall the reality is that we have surrendered our sovereignty to an unelected cabal of politicians who are in thrall to the interests of global capitalists.

If that is how the Germans and French want to be governed good luck to them, Germany is a young country which feels it needs to right it's historical wrongs, and France has had more forms of governments I the last 200 years than I have had hot dinners.

The UK is in contrast an old country with a long history of stable independence..............we have more to lose than a few billion euros in trade.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't think it's feebleness, I think it's a cultural and political issue, namely that the UK has never been a fully engaged member of the EU project.

This is partly the nature of the project itself, however it's also about the dishonesty of British politicians over the last 30 years in explaining what was actually going on.

Tony Blair took a different course with our relationship, however ultimately he was just as dishonest as (by way of example) we have seen from the huge numbers of Eastern Europeans who have moved to the UK in the last 10 years.............and all without a by your leave with the electorate. The fallout of this stance could contaminate the Labour Party for generations.

I accept that there are lots of moving parts to the EU and they may not all be bad, however overall the reality is that we have surrendered our sovereignty to an unelected cabal of politicians who are in thrall to the interests of global capitalists.

If that is how the Germans and French want to be governed good luck to them, Germany is a young country which feels it needs to right it's historical wrongs, and France has had more forms of governments I the last 200 years than I have had hot dinners.

The UK is in contrast an old country with a long history of stable independence..............we have more to lose than a few billion euros in trade.

You started off with confusing a deficit with a surplus. When you got back on track the main plank of your argument was blown out of the water as you didn't realise the UK's chief economic sector was the exact opposite of what you were stating, and we're now down to cliches about Germany, France and the UK. Up the Empire eh? I'll leave you to it I think.

 

[pastafarian]

Your argument simply doesn't hold for what is the UK's biggest economic sector. It will be economic suicide.

Out of interest what was the UK`s biggest export market in April 2015

A Countries within the EU
B Countries outside the EU

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of interest what was the UK`s biggest export market in April 2015

A Countries within the EU
B Countries outside the EU

Please keep up. Me and Cunning F did this yesterday. See our discussion on trade surplus and deficit.

 

[cunning fergus]

You started off with confusing a deficit with a surplus. When you got back on track the main plank of your argument was blown out of the water as you didn't realise the UK's chief economic sector was the exact opposite of what you were stating, and we're now down to cliches about Germany, France and the UK. Up the Empire eh? I'll leave you to it I think.

It seemed to me that we started off with some broad agreement relating to the UK/EU trading environment, and that in the event of an UK exit following the referendum outcome, it’s not in either the UK or EU’s interest to jeopardise such trading.

If you want to consider that my simple mistake is confusion, knock yourself out………………it does not change the numbers which support the above position.

My final point may have been a cliché to you, but its truism nonetheless; and for capitalists obsessed with free markets and neo liberalism then national sovereignty is fair game when compared to their greed for profit.

That fact that you equate this status quo with a reference to supporting the British Empire is absurd……………..it is not unreasonable to possess the view that the UK Parliament should have primacy over all UK laws; and definitely not be subordinate to an essentially unelected foreign Government.

If you don’t believe me then you should check out what Dennis Skinner has to say on the matter, and let me know whether you consider him to be an imperialist and British Empire supporter.

He of course is very much a man that knows a Tory when he sees one.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

That fact that you equate this status quo with a reference to supporting the British Empire is absurd……………..it is not unreasonable to possess the view that the UK Parliament should have primacy over all UK laws; and definitely not be subordinate to an essentially unelected foreign Government.

I've read this paragraph a few times and it seems to me that requiring Parliamentary primacy over all UK laws in this way would seem to rule out ready access to the EU single market, certainly using either the EEA route or the Swiss "model", not least because these countries have committed to adopting current and future EU legislation in this area?

 

[cunning fergus]

I've read this paragraph a few times and it seems to me that requiring Parliamentary primacy over all UK laws in this way would seem to rule out ready access to the EU single market, certainly using either the EEA route or the Swiss "model", not least because these countries have committed to adopting current and future EU legislation in this area?

I guess there are plenty of different ways to skin a cat.

It seems to me that the UK should aim to be able to govern itself in the same way that some of the most vocal supporters of our membership of the EU govern themselves.

The U.S. is obviously the best example of independent government and they are regularly advocating publicly these days our continued membership of the EU.

When the U.S. is subject to the whims of an unelected (say) Mexican leading a legislature of other South Americans that can impose laws on the U.S. without them being passed by the democratically elected U.S. government, then maybe I will change my mind.

Till then, I want the UK to have the same freedom to govern itself that they have.

 

[Questions]

I guess there are plenty of different ways to skin a cat.

.

I've skinned 3 cats which I have fed to my pitbull terriers and as far as I know there is only one real way of doing it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Till then, I want the UK to have the same freedom to govern itself that they have.

First it was wanting to be like Norway and Switzerland. Now it's the USA. You've got to laugh haven't you. Can we be like the nice palm tree bit on the far side?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

http://www.change-link.co.uk/contact/victoria-branch/

Just a touch under 1.40 for the tourist rate this morning, I wonder what the markets will do come Monday morning on the news if the referendum?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

http://www.change-link.co.uk/contact/victoria-branch/

Just a touch under 1.40 for the tourist rate this morning, I wonder what the markets will do come Monday morning on the news if the referendum?

1.4046 on CurrencyFair right now.