Gay Marriage - The Vote

[SIMMO SAYS]

Wot the feck is going on with all this Double Posting?

 

[pork pie]

Oh aye. Absolutely cacking my knickers.

Knickers? Are you a tart?

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I want to marry an alien in a branch of Wickes.

YouTube

 

[Acker79]

however (and due to me not giving a shit) i haven't actually done any research, but i really don't get what the difference is between what they already have and what they want to have....is this literally a debate over the language used?

I think these posts from earlier in the thread cover it

On why civil partnership isn't enough on a social level:

The problem is that "civil partnership" is not marriage, it is set aside as being something special for gay people because they can't have marriage. It creates, for lack of a better term, a class system. Gay couples aren't married like straight people, just "civil partners". Allowing prejudices to persist because "their union isn't like a proper marriage".

Marriage is older than record. It isn't intrinsically linked to any religion, and each religion has their own rules and rituals. Legalising gay marriage is not interfering with religion, refusing to legalise it on religious grounds is religion interfering with law.

On why it isn't about forcing churches to conduct gay marriages

No. It is about the state legalising gay marriage, not forcing churches to conduct them.

What assurances have been provided for religious organisations?

Mrs Miller has promised a "quadruple lock" for religious groups who oppose gay marriage, involving:

• No religious organisation or individual minister being compelled to marry same-sex couples or to permit this to happen on their premises
• Making it unlawful for religious organisations or their ministers to marry same-sex couples unless their organisation's governing body has expressly opted in to provisions for doing so
• Amending the 2010 Equality Act to ensure no discrimination claim can be brought against religious organisations or individual ministers for refusing to marry a same-sex couple
• The legislation explicitly stating that it will be illegal for the Church of England and the Church in Wales to marry same-sex couples

BBC News - QA: Gay marriage

On the legal differences of marriage and civil partnership:

It looks like it's more about mopping up the last of the legal discrepancies...


Is there a legal difference between the two?

The Civil Partnership Act 2004 gave same-sex couples the rights and responsibilities similar to those in a civil marriage. Civil partners are entitled to the same property rights, the same exemptions on inheritance tax, social security and pension benefits as married couples. They also have the same ability to get parental responsibility for a partner's children as well as reasonable maintenance, tenancy rights, insurance and next-of-kin rights in hospital and with doctors. There is a process similar to divorce for dissolving a civil partnership.

So why don't they have the same status under English law?

In 2006, Sir Mark Potter, president of the high court family division, told an academic lesbian couple that they faced an "insurmountable hurdle" in trying to have a same-sex marriage recognised in English law. He said marriage was regarded as an "age-old institution" that was "by longstanding definition and acceptance" a formal relationship between a man and a woman primarily designed for producing and rearing children. The couple, Celia Kitzinger and Sue Wilkinson, who were married in Canada and spent their life savings on the court battle, said they were deeply disappointed saying they had been "stripped" of their marriage.

Any practical differences in the ceremonies?

Until now it has been banned for civil partnership ceremonies to include religious readings, music or symbols and forbidden for them to take place in religious venues, regardless of the views of the building's owners. In Scotland, which has its own legislation, some church parishes offer blessing ceremonies for same-sex couples.

Any other practical differences?

Civil partners of male peers or knights do not receive a courtesy title to which the spouse of a peer or knight would be entitled.

How many civil partnerships are there?

More than 18,000 civil partnerships were formed in 2006, the first year they were legal in Britain. Since then 6,000 to 8,000 a year have been performed.

 

[El Presidente]

Anyone else noticed an interesting correlation between the homophobes on this thread and those that constantly moan excessively about the Albion?

Not sure what conclusion to draw from that though.

Perhaps the conclusion is that their bigotry is not confined to sexuality, but also race and religion?

We do after all have a Jewish club owner and a foreign manager and assistant manager.

 

[Hamilton]

I just can't see why if a gay couple wants to get married it should matter

Perhaps people mistakenly think that after this legislation is passed they will be forced to marry someone of the same sex?

It's beyond me why everyone is getting so uppity about it all. If people love each other and want to get married then let 'em.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Knickers? Are you a tart?

Not usually. Why, are you then?

 

[spring hall convert]

As a Christian i vote no not because i dislike homosexuals or Lesbians they are still Gods children and he loves them very much even though he would not approve of what they are doing but because the Father who created this earth did not create it for same sex marriages but for man and women so they could re produce and glorify his work and plan and have a perfect world with no sin , this is made very clear in the Bible , obviously if you dont believe there is a God then you wont believe what the bible says is the truth either thats understandable , imagine you wrote a life long book and you have planned how it will finish only for someone or something to come in and tear out your ending and replace it with how they want it to be and leave you out of the ending totally ! it doesnt surprise me at all that it has come to this because our world is leaving God out more and more and as we go on and in time there will be even more state powers voting on other un Godly decisions that will effect us , dont be surprised if a vote for Sharia law is on the agenda in the not to distant future .

Wow religious fundamentalism & unfounded Islamaphobia in the same post. In a thread where some people have made some really stupid points, this really shines.

1)What's the Sharia Law point about? Sharia Law wouldn't even be popular with muslims living here, let alone the country at large so how can you compare that to something that a MORI poll tells us is supported by 70-75% of the country? Wouldn't Sharia Law support your own views on homosexuality?
2)Hasn't the accuracy of the book in question been put slightly into doubt by the existence of evolution?

Overall the religious perspective has been my bugbear today. Since when did being religious make it ok to be homophobic?

 

[The Modfather]

Its a yes from me. Not sure why there is such a hoo-ha over this.

Surely our politicians should be concentrating on getting the economy going.

 

[Hamilton]

As a Christian i vote no not because i dislike homosexuals or Lesbians they are still Gods children and he loves them very much even though he would not approve of what they are doing but because the Father who created this earth did not create it for same sex marriages but for man and women so they could re produce and glorify his work and plan and have a perfect world with no sin , this is made very clear in the Bible , obviously if you dont believe there is a God then you wont believe what the bible says is the truth either thats understandable , imagine you wrote a life long book and you have planned how it will finish only for someone or something to come in and tear out your ending and replace it with how they want it to be and leave you out of the ending totally ! it doesnt surprise me at all that it has come to this because our world is leaving God out more and more and as we go on and in time there will be even more state powers voting on other un Godly decisions that will effect us , dont be surprised if a vote for Sharia law is on the agenda in the not to distant future .

People aren't leaving God out. God just left some people out. All we're trying to do is make a few copy corrections to his best seller.

 

[The Modfather]

Its a yes vote from me. I am not sure why there is such a hoo-ha over this.

Surely the politicians should be concentrating on the economy right now

 

[spring hall convert]

Further evidence that as a society and democracy we are becoming more and more civilised. Excellent news.

Though we still have someway to go evidently;

The Quietus | Opinion | Black Sky Thinking | "Nasty Idiotic Tripe": Stand Against Julie Burchill's Years Of Transphobia

 

[Bold Seagull]

...but not gay marriage. Understood.

A fair number of Labour MPs will be voting against this too, I understand. Just when will they modernise?

Wow, so that 'fair number' turned out to be just 22 out of the 245 Labour MP's that voted against.

As opposed to 134 Tories who voted against, only 126 voting for!

Progressive stuff!!

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Good that its got a yes, about time we moved forward further to be equal as a country.

Bet the homophobic idiots on here feel pretty pissed off at the moment.... (When I say homophobic, I mean those who keep saying its wrong to be gay and loads of other anti-gay views - why people should be allowed to air discriminatory views on here is beyond me).

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

There will be celebrations on Dukes Mound tonight.

 

[spring hall convert]

We will be banning straight sex for fear of upsetting the homs next.

And cancelling Christmas so we don't offend muslims. Do you write for the Daily Mail?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Wow religious fundamentalism & unfounded Islamaphobia in the same post. In a thread where some people have made some really stupid points, this really shines.

1)What's the Sharia Law point about? Sharia Law wouldn't even be popular with muslims living here, let alone the country at large so how can you compare that to something that a MORI poll tells us is supported by 70-75% of the country? Wouldn't Sharia Law support your own views on homosexuality?
2)Hasn't the accuracy of the book in question been put slightly into doubt by the existence of evolution?

Overall the religious perspective has been my bugbear today. Since when did being religious make it ok to be homophobic?

Religion doesn't make it ok to be homo (or anything else)-phobic. In fact quite the opposite.

Presuming "the book in question" and its accuracy is the Bible - haven't read the whole thread, but this has already been done to death on other threads. Christians are not forced to believe in evolution, and I would hazard a guess tham most don't. As an adherent of that faith - and a qualified preacher - I recognise that the evolution story in the Bible is just that (for me) a story.

And personally I think there are much more important things for the Church to worry about than Gay Marriage, which personally i do not object to - poverty? people being clobbered by benefits reform? Third world issues? etc etc etc.

 

[highway61]

Am i a Christian? Yes. Do i attend a happy clappy church? Yes. Would i vote yes? Yes. Thats all folks

 

[spring hall convert]

Oh well, I hope all those that voted in favour are happy when their kids/grand kids get married to someone of their own sex, and they end up without grandchildren or great-grandchildren. Having said that, I am not sure too many are in straight relationships to have kids anyway.

As long as it made them happy. Why would I want a child of mine living a lie just in order to keep me happy? Isn't that the antithesis of what a parent wants?

 

[Bold Seagull]

As a Christian i vote no not because i dislike homosexuals or Lesbians they are still Gods children and he loves them very much even though he would not approve of what they are doing but because the Father who created this earth did not create it for same sex marriages but for man and women so they could re produce and glorify his work and plan and have a perfect world with no sin , this is made very clear in the Bible , obviously if you dont believe there is a God then you wont believe what the bible says is the truth either thats understandable , imagine you wrote a life long book and you have planned how it will finish only for someone or something to come in and tear out your ending and replace it with how they want it to be and leave you out of the ending totally ! it doesnt surprise me at all that it has come to this because our world is leaving God out more and more and as we go on and in time there will be even more state powers voting on other un Godly decisions that will effect us , dont be surprised if a vote for Sharia law is on the agenda in the not to distant future .

Talk me through then that God ordained marriage as a covenant between a man and a women. I'm pretty sure however that it didn't say anything about getting off with your neighbours wife and you can always get a divorce if you get tired of all the nagging and lack of sex. I'm pretty sure it doesn't say that. However, various church's get round it of course by their individual interpretations of scripture. You can remarry as long as your really really really sorry and you promise not to get divorced again as God did say originally it was bad, but we reckon that actually it's not as bad as we first thought so we sure you'll be fine doing it, amen.

Gays on the other hand, we've decided not to massage the interpretation on that, or the bit about wives being subordinate to their husbands as they are to the Lord. We like that one.