Gary Gardner...

[imissworthing2]

I like JFC but agree that his game is all about being neat and tidy and defo not going for the killer pass too often. He'll look better with creative attacking players around him tho IMHO. What did Cantona call Deschamps back in the day: a water carrier or something similar which seems quite apt re JFC.

 

[Marshy]

I think a good yardstick is taking examples from the U21 squad you mention. Just off the top of my head Redmond, Ings, Ince, Jenkinson, Zaha all around a similar age and all far more developed at the top level. This is of course discarding players who bypass the U21s and go straight into the first team.

Even if you argue JFC has progressed he falls well short of the standard of those players above and is certainly not at a level where we should be building anything around him.

I would love to be proved wrong and hope he pushes on and fulfils the hype he has had since he was 15 but I worry he is going to another of those we are still talking about potential when he is in his late 20's

None of the above players play in a central midfield role though dictating how a side plays, all are wide players, forwards or full backs etc.
Its much easier to give a young player his head as it were in one of these positions, rather than the middle of the park where JFC operates.

Its very rare indeed to find a player like JFC operating in the middle of midfield in top championship side at the age of 18 like he was and is now.
Even a player like Will Hughes spends the majority of his time bench warming at Derby.

I have absolutely no doubt our patience will be rewarded with JFC.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

None of the above players play in a central midfield role though dictating how a side plays, all are wide players, forwards or full backs etc.
Its much easier to give a young player his head as it were in one of these positions, rather than the middle of the park where JFC operates.

Its very rare indeed to find a player like JFC operating in the middle of midfield in top championship side at the age of 18 like he was and is now.
Even a player like Will Hughes at Derby spends the majority of his time bench warming at Derby.

James Ward Prowse.

Tremendous talent, to cope in that role at that age.

 

[Marshy]

James Ward Prowse.

Tremendous talent, to cope in that role at that age.

Absolutely, but as I say its very rare, and totally understandable why teams generally fill there side with a bit more experience in there
Hence it just goes to show how good JFC is in my opinion

And even more immpressive that JFC and Ince both very young inexperienced players managed to hold down regular spots and get us to the Play offs last term.
Despite how bad Andrews was apparantly....

 

[BensGrandad]

Andrews carried Ince and JFCi last season. JFC has improved this season but not so Ince

 

[um bongo molongo]

As a relatively reasonable example, i've looked at the 2011 European Under 21 Championship squad.

1 GK Frank Fielding
2 DF Michael Mancienne
3 DF Ryan Bertrand
4 MF Fabrice Muamba
5 DF Chris Smalling
6 DF Phil Jones
7 MF Marc Albrighton
8 MF Jordan Henderson
9 FW Danny Welbeck
10 FW Daniel Sturridge
11 MF Scott Sinclair
12 DF Kieran Gibbs
13 GK Alex McCarthy
14 DF Kyle Walker
15 DF James Tomkins
16 MF Jack Cork
17 MF Tom Cleverley
18 MF Henri Lansbury
19 MF Jack Rodwell
20 MF Danny Rose
21 FW Nathan Delfouneso
22 FW Connor Wickham
23 GK Jason Steele

Of those, 10 have gone on to receive full international caps. Some, it could be argued would have also done some if it weren't for poor choices (Sinclair) or injury (Muamba). So if we take this squad then it is 43%. It may be more

If we go back to the 2007 tournament:

1 GK Scott Carson
2 DF Justin Hoyte
3 DF Leighton Baines
4 MF Steven Taylor
5 DF Anton Ferdinand
6 DF Gary Cahill
7 MF Nigel Reo-Coker
8 MF David Bentley
9 MF Kieran Richardson
10 FW David Nugent
11 FW Ashley Young
12 MF Wayne Routledge
13 GK Joe Hart
14 DF Liam Rosenior
15 MF James Milner
16 FW Leroy Lita
17 MF Tom Huddlestone
18 MF Mark Noble
19 FW Matt Derbyshire
20 DF Nedum Onuoha
21 FW James Vaughan
22 GK Ben Alnwick
23 DF Peter Whittingham

Again, like the 2011 tournament there are 10 that went on to receive full caps. It seems that approx 40% is the average (the 2009 squad had 9 players). So there's a reasonable chance that there could be progression, but the one thing that JFC has against him is the club he's playing for - getting regular football at the highest level will no doubt help his chances and there's plenty of quality players in those squads who didn't progress due to lack of decent action at the right level or due to injuries/being a bit shitter than was initially thought.

In conclusion: **** knows.

If you use "has become a first team regular in the premiership" as a yardstick it's a pretty decent % (but with a fair few "fallen away" as well (justin hoyte etc)...

 

[um bongo molongo]

Too many midfielders ?

Actually just one more than last year when we had throughout the season 11 or 12 including Bruno...

DM: Bridcutt/Stephens, Crofts, Ince, Andrews
Playmakers/CM: Lopez, Orlandi, Agustien, JFC, [Bruno]
Wingers: March, KLL, Buckley/Conway

And now we have 12, or 13 if you include Bruno

DM - Toko, Ince, Holla, Crofts, Stephens
CM/playmakers - Tex, Agustien, [Bruno], JFC, Gardner
Wingers - March, KLL, McCourt

This was my thought as well, yes we've signed a lot of midfielders but we've lost a lot as well (bridcutt, Andrews, Lopez, orlandi, Buckley, Conway) - arguably we're now back to a full complement. Although I suspect they'd sell agustien in a heartbeat if we could find someone to buy him...

 

[bhawoddy]

IMO if everyone was fit my midfield would be holla, tex, Bruno, March, and probably Stephens.

 

[sir albion]

Great signing and slowly you'll see certain players out on loan or on the bench inclu...JFC,crofts and kemy..we need technical midfielders now.

Very happy

 

[Sheebo]

Andrews carried Ince and JFCi last season. JFC has improved this season but not so Ince

No Andrews was fecking shit most of the time

 

[BensGrandad]

No Andrews was fecking shit most of the time

I thought he was quite good and a great influence to the young players

 

[Sheebo]

I thought he was quite good and a great influence to the young players

Seemed a good pro yeh - but certainly didn't carry Ince & JFC imo