Gary Gardner...

[Hyperion]

Looking at his wiki page, it seems as though he has had barely any appearances in his senior career since 2011. He may well be a fantastic player, but can someone clarify why people are rating him so highly when there's so few games to judge him by?

Has he played for Brentford yet?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Has he played for Brentford yet?

 

[Bring back Bryan wade!!]

Amen to that.

JFC is a excellent player and one we should be building a team around, not getting rid off

Kemy and Crofts both in the final years of contracts and both sizeable earners will be off in the summer, if not before if we got an offer.

Why would we get rid of crofts?? When fit he's been arguably our best midfielder over the last 2 seasons....

 

[Ernest]

Caskey is the NEW Jake Robinson, precocious talent as a youngster but hasn't TRAINED on

 

[Silk]

Looking at his wiki page, it seems as though he has had barely any appearances in his senior career since 2011. He may well be a fantastic player, but can someone clarify why people are rating him so highly when there's so few games to judge him by?

Injury.

 

[Bladders]

Amen to that.

JFC is a excellent player .

I wish he'd hurry up and show it then....

 

[Silk]

I wish he'd hurry up and show it then....

I thought he had one of his best games for us on Saturday. And he didn't do much.

 

[Marshy]

Why would we get rid of crofts?? When fit he's been arguably our best midfielder over the last 2 seasons....

Crofts and Kemy are good earners, and I believe the player recruitment team will think we can find better and younger players for less money when there contracts expire.

The season before last Crofts hardly kicked a ball under Poyet, and was definately out of favour, because his footballing ability was not good enough.
And last season under Oscar he had half a season before getting injured, half a dozen goals masked average performances in my opinion.
Despite some peoples opinion, he is not a goal scoring midfielder, never has been

Not quite sure how that makes him in any way arguably our best midfielder over the last 2 seasons..

Anyway, In my opinion he does not fit in with the type of midfielder we are currently signing, ie bieng very comfortable on the ball
Crofts is a decent player and I am happy to have him in my squad, but I think we have better options, its only a matter of time before players get fit ( Stephens, McCourt, Gardner, March to name 4 ) and Crofts is out of the side.

 

[blue'n'white]

He'll take over Forster-Caskey's starting line up spot.

And another thumbs up from me !

 

[Seasider78]

Amen to that.

JFC is a excellent player and one we should be building a team around, not getting rid off

Kemy and Crofts both in the final years of contracts and both sizeable earners will be off in the summer, if not before if we got an offer.

Whilst I am not in the anti JFC camp I have seen nothing to suggest we should be building anything around him. He has potential to be a solid championship player but for me his progress has stalled since he burst into the first team under Gus.

My feeling with JFC is he looks like someone who plays with fear and as such plays everything too safe. Don't get me wrong he is a solid performer who will keep things ticking over but lacks the killer pass or vision to unlock defences and for that reason I expect he will be replaced in the starting 11

We should keep and develop him as the basics are there but he needs to step up and become that difference in games rather than playing the safe and unimaginative option

 

[Grombleton]

Crofts and Kemy are good earners, and I believe the player recruitment team will think we can find better and younger players for less money when there contracts expire.

The season before last Crofts hardly kicked a ball under Poyet, and was definately out of favour, because his footballing ability was not good enough.
And last season under Oscar he had half a season before getting injured, half a dozen goals masked average performances in my opinion.
Despite some peoples opinion, he is not a goal scoring midfielder, never has been

Not quite sure how that makes him in any way arguably our best midfielder over the last 2 seasons..

Anyway, In my opinion he does not fit in with the type of midfielder we are currently signing, ie bieng very comfortable on the ball
Crofts is a decent player and I am happy to have him in my squad, but I think we have better options, its only a matter of time before players get fit ( Stephens, McCourt, Gardner to name 3 ) and Crofts is out of the side.

See, I think he's ideal - he's good (not the best, but still good) with the ball at his feet, works hard both going forward and back which we need for our style of play, has a lot of energy and an eye for goal - he won't score 12+ goals from midfield but he'll get half a dozen or more which will be valuable. He's still got a part to play as we'll need players for every occasion.
If we had to sell any players, he wouldn't be on my list.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Crofts offers a wealth of experience something that a lot of the other midfielders don't ..I can see him playing an important role for the rest of the season

 

[Marshy]

See, I think he's ideal - he's good (not the best, but still good) with the ball at his feet, works hard both going forward and back which we need for our style of play, has a lot of energy and an eye for goal - he won't score 12+ goals from midfield but he'll get half a dozen or more which will be valuable. He's still got a part to play as we'll need players for every occasion.
If we had to sell any players, he wouldn't be on my list.

I agree with some of what you are saying, he is not a bad player at all and in my squad I am happy to have him.

But I don't believe we will renew his contract at the end of the season for the reasons I have stated, age, money, ability etc etc

Therefore if an offer came in or Kemy I would expect us to except it. Much like we did with Barnes contract running down.

Slowly but surely all of Poyets high paid signings are being removed from the squad. Crofts definately fits into that category.

In a months time, given we have a fit squad I would be very suprised if Crofts was at best warming our bench.

 

[BensGrandad]

Slate me if you wish but I would play him instead of Crofts who for me was the weak link against Bolton. He is not as good as his hype I do not think. Good to have on the bench because he can play either holding or attacking but not good enough for 1st choice XI

 

[chaileyjem]

He has potential to be a solid championship player but for me his progress has stalled since he burst into the first team under Gus.

Under Gus he made 4 appearances in 2011/12 yet barely appeared at all in 2012/13 being sent out on loan. You could say stalled.
However under Oscar he made 28 appearances and established himself as a first team regular. In the summer he made his debut for the England u21 squad at the Toulon tournament. I'd say his progress in 2014 has been rather good.

 

[Marshy]

Under Gus he made 4 appearances in 2011/12 yet barely appeared at all in 2012/13 being sent out on loan. You could say stalled.
However under Oscar he made 28 appearances and established himself as a first team regular. In the summer he made his debut for the England u21 squad at the Toulon tournament. I'd say his progress in 2014 has been rather good.

Spot on, an England U21 international we are taking about here.
He will get better and better, as I said earlier, build a team around him.

 

[perseus]

See, I think he's ideal - he's good (not the best, but still good) with the ball at his feet, works hard both going forward and back which we need for our style of play, has a lot of energy and an eye for goal - he won't score 12+ goals from midfield but he'll get half a dozen or more which will be valuable. He's still got a part to play as we'll need players for every occasion.
If we had to sell any players, he wouldn't be on my list.

It seems to me that that description could fit all of the younger players.

Albion still have the edge in midfield on the ordinary Championship teams and also against Derby at home in the play-offs. JFC was at least one third responsible.

Being a natural left-footer gets him in the side when the choices are even.

 

[GT49er]

This -

Caskey is the NEW Jake Robinson, precocious talent as a youngster but hasn't TRAINED on

and this -

Whilst I am not in the anti JFC camp I have seen nothing to suggest we should be building anything around him. He has potential to be a solid championship player but for me his progress has stalled since he burst into the first team under Gus.

I kind of get the impression that a lot of the people who play for the England U21s don't kick on from there, certainly not as far as getting to the national team (and yes, I know there are some, but doesn't seem to be many). Anybody got any stats on this to either prove me right (or flame me)?

 

[Seasider78]

Under Gus he made 4 appearances in 2011/12 yet barely appeared at all in 2012/13 being sent out on loan. You could say stalled.
However under Oscar he made 28 appearances and established himself as a first team regular. In the summer he made his debut for the England u21 squad at the Toulon tournament. I'd say his progress in 2014 has been rather good.

I think a good yardstick is taking examples from the U21 squad you mention. Just off the top of my head Redmond, Ings, Ince, Jenkinson, Zaha all around a similar age and all far more developed at the top level. This is of course discarding players who bypass the U21s and go straight into the first team.

Even if you argue JFC has progressed he falls well short of the standard of those players above and is certainly not at a level where we should be building anything around him.

I would love to be proved wrong and hope he pushes on and fulfils the hype he has had since he was 15 but I worry he is going to another of those we are still talking about potential when he is in his late 20's

 

[Grombleton]

This -



and this -



I kind of get the impression that a lot of the people who play for the England U21s don't kick on from there, certainly not as far as getting to the national team (and yes, I know there are some, but doesn't seem to be many). Anybody got any stats on this to either prove me right (or flame me)?

As a relatively reasonable example, i've looked at the 2011 European Under 21 Championship squad.

1 GK Frank Fielding
2 DF Michael Mancienne
3 DF Ryan Bertrand
4 MF Fabrice Muamba
5 DF Chris Smalling
6 DF Phil Jones
7 MF Marc Albrighton
8 MF Jordan Henderson
9 FW Danny Welbeck
10 FW Daniel Sturridge
11 MF Scott Sinclair
12 DF Kieran Gibbs
13 GK Alex McCarthy
14 DF Kyle Walker
15 DF James Tomkins
16 MF Jack Cork
17 MF Tom Cleverley
18 MF Henri Lansbury
19 MF Jack Rodwell
20 MF Danny Rose
21 FW Nathan Delfouneso
22 FW Connor Wickham
23 GK Jason Steele

Of those, 10 have gone on to receive full international caps. Some, it could be argued would have also done some if it weren't for poor choices (Sinclair) or injury (Muamba). So if we take this squad then it is 43%. It may be more

If we go back to the 2007 tournament:

1 GK Scott Carson
2 DF Justin Hoyte
3 DF Leighton Baines
4 MF Steven Taylor
5 DF Anton Ferdinand
6 DF Gary Cahill
7 MF Nigel Reo-Coker
8 MF David Bentley
9 MF Kieran Richardson
10 FW David Nugent
11 FW Ashley Young
12 MF Wayne Routledge
13 GK Joe Hart
14 DF Liam Rosenior
15 MF James Milner
16 FW Leroy Lita
17 MF Tom Huddlestone
18 MF Mark Noble
19 FW Matt Derbyshire
20 DF Nedum Onuoha
21 FW James Vaughan
22 GK Ben Alnwick
23 DF Peter Whittingham

Again, like the 2011 tournament there are 10 that went on to receive full caps. It seems that approx 40% is the average (the 2009 squad had 9 players). So there's a reasonable chance that there could be progression, but the one thing that JFC has against him is the club he's playing for - getting regular football at the highest level will no doubt help his chances and there's plenty of quality players in those squads who didn't progress due to lack of decent action at the right level or due to injuries/being a bit shitter than was initially thought.

In conclusion: **** knows.