[Football] Gareth Southgate bemoans lack of English players

[TomandJerry]

England boss Gareth Southgate says he may have to look to the Championship for players as the pool of homegrown talent in the Premier League is getting "smaller and smaller".

Southgate said that the number of English players playing in the top-flight has dropped to 30% this season.

He expressed "concern" at the lack of opportunities for young players and says a lot of players "will be lost".

"It has really serious repercussions for our national team," said Southgate."

 

[Javeaseagull]

You can only pick 11 for the team and 23 for the Euros. He has loads of players that are playing in probably the best league in the world, certainly playing against and with some of the best players out there. If they come to the top in that league they are really amongst the best players in the world.
Look at Croatia!

 

[Easy 10]

Its a tired argument. The cream always rises to the top - if they're stuck in the Championship then they're not good enough to play for the best teams in England, because the top clubs aren't interested in them, ergo they're not good enough to be selected for England. Premier League clubs always have the best of the English talent. One of the most tiresome arguments when England fail is "why not pick some Championship players, they'll CARE more" - cobblers. They're in the 2nd division because they don't have the talent and/or application to be one of the ones who is capable of playing amongst the very elite.

Out top clubs are STUFFED with excellent english players. Are they as good as the World elite they regularly rub shoulders with in the PL ? No. But then how many countries have a Hazard, a Silva, an Aguero, a Salah, a Kante. We have some amazing talent in the PL, the best from around the world, but we also have plenty of our own who are playing with and against them, and that can only benefit them. I'm a firm believer that if an english player proves he's good enough, then he'll get his chance. Kane for one is proof of that.

We probably had around 80% english players in the top flight in the 70s and 80s, with the rest mainly made up from other home nations, and where did that get us ? If we ony have 30% now, its 30% of the best, most of whom regularly play at the elite level of club football in the Champions League, with the best and against the best. Don't give me this 'selecting from the Championship' bollocks. What a crock of shit.

 

[Solid at the back]

I don't think the premier league or championship should have international breaks. Keeping the competitions going forces clubs to use youngsters and players who don't have much of an opportunity.

 

[BadFish]

I think we should be more concerned about the low numbers of our players who go and play elsewhere. There are a number of reasons that we are shit at international level and i think that lack of pathway for English players is a symptom of a few of them.

 

[happypig]

Its a tired argument. The cream always rises to the top - if they're stuck in the Championship then they're not good enough to play for the best teams in England, because the top clubs aren't interested in them, ergo they're not good enough to be selected for England. Premier League clubs always have the best of the English talent. One of the most tiresome arguments when England fail is "why not pick some Championship players, they'll CARE more" - cobblers. They're in the 2nd division because they don't have the talent and/or application to be one of the ones who is capable of playing amongst the very elite.

Out top clubs are STUFFED with excellent english players. Are they as good as the World elite they regularly rub shoulders with in the PL ? No. But then how many countries have a Hazard, a Silva, an Aguero, a Salah, a Kante. We have some amazing talent in the PL, the best from around the world, but we also have plenty of our own who are playing with and against them, and that can only benefit them. I'm a firm believer that if an english player proves he's good enough, then he'll get his chance. Kane for one is proof of that.

We probably had around 80% english players in the top flight in the 70s and 80s, with the rest mainly made up from other home nations, and where did that get us ? If we ony have 30% now, its 30% of the best, most of whom regularly play at the elite level of club football in the Champions League, with the best and against the best. Don't give me this 'selecting from the Championship' bollocks. What a crock of shit.

I'll put you down as "undecided" shall I?

 

[Cozzy]

As Glen Murray stated a couple of weeks ago ... the talent is there in the lower leagues BUT its cheaper to get players from abroad & there seems to be more Kudos for a foreign player than an English one in the prem

Maybe if there was an 'import' tax it would level the transfer market but that may happen with Brexit anyway

 

[Gwylan]

Easy is totally on the ball here: there are 20 squads of 25 - 500 players - in the PL. If 30% are English, that's 150 top players. How many does Southgate need?

 

[Lower West Stander]

Its a tired argument. The cream always rises to the top - if they're stuck in the Championship then they're not good enough to play for the best teams in England, because the top clubs aren't interested in them, ergo they're not good enough to be selected for England. Premier League clubs always have the best of the English talent. One of the most tiresome arguments when England fail is "why not pick some Championship players, they'll CARE more" - cobblers. They're in the 2nd division because they don't have the talent and/or application to be one of the ones who is capable of playing amongst the very elite.

Out top clubs are STUFFED with excellent english players. Are they as good as the World elite they regularly rub shoulders with in the PL ? No. But then how many countries have a Hazard, a Silva, an Aguero, a Salah, a Kante. We have some amazing talent in the PL, the best from around the world, but we also have plenty of our own who are playing with and against them, and that can only benefit them. I'm a firm believer that if an english player proves he's good enough, then he'll get his chance. Kane for one is proof of that.

We probably had around 80% english players in the top flight in the 70s and 80s, with the rest mainly made up from other home nations, and where did that get us ? If we ony have 30% now, its 30% of the best, most of whom regularly play at the elite level of club football in the Champions League, with the best and against the best. Don't give me this 'selecting from the Championship' bollocks. What a crock of shit.

You are making highly selective arguments there.

Firstly - there wasn’t one. Not one Englishman started for Chelsea at the weekend. How can that in any way be right? In fact how many English players started at the so called top six at the weekend? Most of the top games in Premier League are foreigners playing against each other. Great for them when Lukaku is playing against Kompany or Kante but not when you have no Englishman playing.

You also say we got nowhere in the seventies with mainly English players but what about the sixties? We did ok then. Also when you look at England’s record then, it actually wasn’t so bad and you could argue they were very unlucky not qualify for the two world cups when the criteria were much stricter than they are now. Oh and Scotland qualified with mainly English based players.

It seems to me that it is just an easier option to buy in an above average foreign player than take a chance on English youth. And that can never be good.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stat Brother]

Alternative headline:-

'Southgate bemoans the lack of English players playing for the top 6 clubs'.

Failing to notice that at least 2 of those 6 are proper shitehouse.

 

[Gwylan]

You are making highly selective arguments there.

Firstly - there wasn’t one. Not one Englishman started for Chelsea at the weekend. How can that in any way be right? In fact how many English players started at the so called top six at the weekend?
You also say we got nowhere in the seventies with mainly English players but what about the sixties? We did ok then.

You're making selective arguments yourself. Yes, we won the WC in 1966 - with home advantage, something that really mattered then (we'll gloss over 1962) - but the England team wasn't just about the top clubs. The 11 players who won the cup came from eight different clubs. If only players from the top clubs count, how come we won it in 66? You seem to want it both ways.

EDIT: Just looked at the league table for 1966 - we selected just four players from the top 6 teams

 

[Bakero]

I think we should be more concerned about the low numbers of our players who go and play elsewhere. There are a number of reasons that we are shit at international level and i think that lack of pathway for English players is a symptom of a few of them.

Thankfully that seems to be slowly changing. Several young players have made the move to Germany in recent years, the most high profile being Sancho. Jonathan Panzo left Chelsea for Monacoough at 17 I'm not sure how much 1st team action he'll be getting. I'm looking forward to seeing how Roberts gets on at Girona on loan from City.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

Alternative headline:-

'Southgate bemoans the lack of English players playing for the top 6 clubs'.
.

This is a key part of the argument.. the gap to the Top 6 in terms of power is such that the best English players are far less likely to get a game there and that is Southgate's key issue. Danny Drinkwater a classic example - arguably one of the better midfielders of a certain type (Henderson, Dier) when he went to Chelsea, but just hasn't been seen since. His issue could simply be that he isn't better than Kante, one of the world's very best in his position. From an England perpsective he may have been better staying at Leicester, (see Vardy). Loftus-Cheek performs well at Palace gets in the squad, but unlikley to play much for Chelsea and will probably move in January - is he not good enough or is it being at the wrong club? However it is hard to ignore that fact that some players do make it, even after big moves : Trippier recently, Kyle Walker has competed well for a spot at City, John Stones continues to battle at City, Luke Shaw at Man Utd, Jesse Lingard, Rashford are others who have forced their way in when given the chance. Sturridge an example of the opposite - even with his move to WBA, didn't appear to demand further attention based on his performances..
But it is also true that for the rest of the Clubs outside of the Big 6 need to find value for money still in an effort to survive, and English players are simply too expensive and still represent a gamble. Grealish was reportedly priced at near £30m. The championship Clubs also need to ask for that kind of money because they are gambling to get to the PL.. There isn't one fix IMO. Southgate will need to stick to his principles and select players who are playing regularly.. If players want to play for England badly enough, they will make decisions about their careers that make that more likely for them.. relentless development at a big Club, forcing their way in, or move to Clubs that allow them to play and demonstrate that they have what it takes.

 

[BBassic]

You are making highly selective arguments there.

Firstly - there wasn’t one. Not one Englishman started for Chelsea at the weekend. How can that in any way be right? In fact how many English players started at the so called top six at the weekend? Most of the top games in Premier League are foreigners playing against each other. Great for them when Lukaku is playing against Kompany or Kante but not when you have no Englishman playing.

You also say we got nowhere in the seventies with mainly English players but what about the sixties? We did ok then. Also when you look at England’s record then, it actually wasn’t so bad and you could argue they were very unlucky not qualify for the two world cups when the criteria were much stricter than they are now. Oh and Scotland qualified with mainly English based players.

It seems to me that it is just an easier option to buy in an above average foreign player than take a chance on English youth. And that can never be good.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's also worth noting that Chelsea, and many other clubs to be fair, harvest young English talent and then farm them out to the Championship and below. They'll probably never get close to the 1st team but if they end up in the Championship maybe Southgate will spot them.

 

[Triggaaar]

Firstly - there wasn’t one. Not one Englishman started for Chelsea at the weekend. How can that in any way be right? In fact how many English players started at the so called top six at the weekend? Most of the top games in Premier League are foreigners playing against each other. Great for them when Lukaku is playing against Kompany or Kante but not when you have no Englishman playing.

Fair point. We could do with English players learning from those games.

Should we have a rule that the starting 11 should always have two English players or something?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Its a tired argument. The cream always rises to the top - if they're stuck in the Championship then they're not good enough to play for the best teams in England, because the top clubs aren't interested in them, ergo they're not good enough to be selected for England. Premier League clubs always have the best of the English talent. One of the most tiresome arguments when England fail is "why not pick some Championship players, they'll CARE more" - cobblers. They're in the 2nd division because they don't have the talent and/or application to be one of the ones who is capable of playing amongst the very elite.

Out top clubs are STUFFED with excellent english players. Are they as good as the World elite they regularly rub shoulders with in the PL ? No. But then how many countries have a Hazard, a Silva, an Aguero, a Salah, a Kante. We have some amazing talent in the PL, the best from around the world, but we also have plenty of our own who are playing with and against them, and that can only benefit them. I'm a firm believer that if an english player proves he's good enough, then he'll get his chance. Kane for one is proof of that.

We probably had around 80% english players in the top flight in the 70s and 80s, with the rest mainly made up from other home nations, and where did that get us ? If we ony have 30% now, its 30% of the best, most of whom regularly play at the elite level of club football in the Champions League, with the best and against the best. Don't give me this 'selecting from the Championship' bollocks. What a crock of shit.

This. With shiny silver bells on.

 

[BBassic]

I did a bit of research after the Iceland game a few years ago. The squad at that time had somewhere in the region of 3,400 Premier League appearances between them and they lost to a country with, as Lineker put it, "more volcanoes than professional footballers".

Premier League experience didn't exactly help us there did it?

 

[Bakero]

Fair point. We could do with English players learning from those games.

Should we have a rule that the starting 11 should always have two English players or something?

That thought popped into my head but was quickly dismissed. Do we really want a situation where managers are forced to play certain players while better, or more in form, players are left on the bench?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

An alternative take. The EPL is the best league in the world. HT actual F do we manage to have as much as 30% of the slice of the player pie representation with the worldwide competition? Its like being in the Olympics and winning 30% of the medals, or earning 30% of the world's GDP. Frankly, statistically English players are way over-reprsented in the EPL. It is a free market but it seems to favour the English, perhaps due to the 5 players in the squad rule. so (sssshhhhh!!), I would keep my head down and my gob shut if I were Slothgrate, love him though I do (sort of).

 

[Wozza]

He needs to pick Sancho. Hopefully all the kids will follow to Germany, where they'll get good coaching and first-team experience.

Edit: Not even in U21s.