[Help] Gambling: The Unique Addiction?

[Triggaaar]

Found this thread very compelling when I read it a couple of weeks ago. I’ve had some professional dealings with gambling companies during my career and I’ve encountered many an unsavoury character. It’s not an industry I like.

Well, I thought this was a pertinent place to post this question.

I haven’t been looking for a new job, I’m lucky to be in a great position at a fantastic company already. I’m very happy where I am. However, I was approached a few weeks ago by an organisation, an entrepreneurial business gearing up to sell, looking to offer me a position.

The package is unreal - well over double my current income, sizeable bonus and a small stake in the business itself. I’ve done some research, and the business and founder are incredibly well respected.

The drawback? It’s a gambling technology company. And that has really thrown me. On the one hand, it has the potential to set us up for life (especially my kids, who will need all the help they can get financially as things stand), yet on the other it’s dirty money, isn’t it?

I feel like if I took it I’d be selling my soul, and if I didn’t I’d be letting my family down.

I’m conflicted. What would you do?

I'd take the job (all else being equal). You can get a better insight into the industry from inside and see what can be done to improve it. A person with morals turning down the job won't help anyone.

 

[dazzer6666]

Found this thread very compelling when I read it a couple of weeks ago. I’ve had some professional dealings with gambling companies during my career and I’ve encountered many an unsavoury character. It’s not an industry I like.

Well, I thought this was a pertinent place to post this question.

I haven’t been looking for a new job, I’m lucky to be in a great position at a fantastic company already. I’m very happy where I am. However, I was approached a few weeks ago by an organisation, an entrepreneurial business gearing up to sell, looking to offer me a position.

The package is unreal - well over double my current income, sizeable bonus and a small stake in the business itself. I’ve done some research, and the business and founder are incredibly well respected.

The drawback? It’s a gambling technology company. And that has really thrown me. On the one hand, it has the potential to set us up for life (especially my kids, who will need all the help they can get financially as things stand), yet on the other it’s dirty money, isn’t it?

I feel like if I took it I’d be selling my soul, and if I didn’t I’d be letting my family down.

I’m conflicted. What would you do?

Tricky one and understand your dilemma.

I posted earlier in the thread about my pal that took a job with a major betting firm after he retired from banking and hated the (lack of) morality in the business. He decided he couldn’t stay, but was fortunately in a financial position where he didn’t need to work - it was primarily boredom that caused him to take the job in the first place.

Only you and your family can work out whether the benefits (which sound incredibly attractive) sufficiently outweigh any moral compromise you’ll need to make - as others have said though, if you don’t take the job someone else will. You also don’t have to stay for ever……

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

ah thats because of the way different games have got round the law. Premium play is a classic example. No longer do you have to waste time betting £2 and getting the occassional 25p or your £2 back. Now you spin to decide if you get a spin. Whats worse there are different volatility levels and lots of them dont tell you the chance of getting a spin. I personally tried the medium volatility one, £100 in and on the 48th spin (so £96) i finally got 5 spins of the actual game. 5 DEAD SPINS so zero% payout. After doing another £50 and no second spin i gave up.
Even worse are the roulette ones where you can bet up to £30 of "chips" for £2 and like the premium plays you have to win a spin to get the actual roulette wheel spin. In maths terms that means you should get a spin roughly one in 15 (say one in 16 allowing for the fobt profit). Ive seen several people go £100 without a spin and when it does eventually land their number misses. I was recently in a bookies witnessing a guy screaming at the machine after doing £500 without a single winning spin. Seemed he was betting £2 on 5 numbers (which meant he SHOULD have had a one in 5 chance of the wheel spinning) but most he could win is £72 anyway. As someone else pointed out, in any other situation like a drunk in a pub, the staff would have made him leave but they just politely suggested he take a ten minute break ..

I was recently watching an online video last week (check out "7 neighbours" on youtube). Playing 3 fobs (at a bingo hall) at once. Gambles everything and loses £4500 with one £500 jackpot (re-spent) and then ZERO% payout between the 3. I was actually pleased to see him do this though as he has dozens of videos where he shows him gambling small wins to the jackpot so was good to also show the reality for most of us..

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

Found this thread very compelling when I read it a couple of weeks ago. I’ve had some professional dealings with gambling companies during my career and I’ve encountered many an unsavoury character. It’s not an industry I like.

Well, I thought this was a pertinent place to post this question.

I haven’t been looking for a new job, I’m lucky to be in a great position at a fantastic company already. I’m very happy where I am. However, I was approached a few weeks ago by an organisation, an entrepreneurial business gearing up to sell, looking to offer me a position.

The package is unreal - well over double my current income, sizeable bonus and a small stake in the business itself. I’ve done some research, and the business and founder are incredibly well respected.

The drawback? It’s a gambling technology company. And that has really thrown me. On the one hand, it has the potential to set us up for life (especially my kids, who will need all the help they can get financially as things stand), yet on the other it’s dirty money, isn’t it?

I feel like if I took it I’d be selling my soul, and if I didn’t I’d be letting my family down.

I’m conflicted. What would you do?

Very interesting. i recently caught up with an ex colleague who got made redundant last year like me. He was now a data analyst and his job was in exactly the same industry. His role was to create algorithms to analyse punters spending, match their spending to offers already existing and even to propose new offers if the target audience is people likely to be considered addicts (of course they didnt use that phrase)
The info they have on you for online spending is insane:
-The obvious ones like which offers you accept and which you ignore
-How much over the Minimum qualification you go (ie bet £200 to get £10 free bet but most players spend MUCH more than this)
-On online slots:
....Average spins per minute
....Do they use autospin
....Gamble wins yes/no
....If gambled, is it all or nothing, do they part bank etc
And then the scary stuff
.... What the spec of the machine they have is..
....Are you playing online through browser, mobile of desktop
...What times of day you spend most (like wtf!!!). In fact this last one rang true a few years ago when Grosvenor put a temporary block on my online account after i was gambling at 4am on a week day and they knew i worked and it took an irate phone call telling them to mind their own bloody business as i was working on a project US hours at that time!
...And likely loads more i forget he mentioned

Anyway, yeah he took the job as an offer he couldn't refuse. And the dubious bit, If any of his new algorithms results in increased losses from punter(s) he gets a % - he didn't say how much.

He has like you questioned the morals of this, but he's never had so much disposable income and has been paying double on his mortgage . His wife also makes him make a monthly donation to charity for their "karma" lol

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

For anyone interested i just found this...if you want an idea how much info about you is sent every time you visit a web page..
What every browser knows about you

 

[oldboyroy]

See William Hill been fined heavily and was considered serious enough to suspend its license over allowing huge deposits without checking affordability amongst other checks(money laundering).

 

[Insel affe]

Very interesting. i recently caught up with an ex colleague who got made redundant last year like me. He was now a data analyst and his job was in exactly the same industry. His role was to create algorithms to analyse punters spending, match their spending to offers already existing and even to propose new offers if the target audience is people likely to be considered addicts (of course they didnt use that phrase)
The info they have on you for online spending is insane:
-The obvious ones like which offers you accept and which you ignore
-How much over the Minimum qualification you go (ie bet £200 to get £10 free bet but most players spend MUCH more than this)
-On online slots:
....Average spins per minute
....Do they use autospin
....Gamble wins yes/no
....If gambled, is it all or nothing, do they part bank etc
And then the scary stuff
.... What the spec of the machine they have is..
....Are you playing online through browser, mobile of desktop
...What times of day you spend most (like wtf!!!). In fact this last one rang true a few years ago when Grosvenor put a temporary block on my online account after i was gambling at 4am on a week day and they knew i worked and it took an irate phone call telling them to mind their own bloody business as i was working on a project US hours at that time!
...And likely loads more i forget he mentioned

Anyway, yeah he took the job as an offer he couldn't refuse. And the dubious bit, If any of his new algorithms results in increased losses from punter(s) he gets a % - he didn't say how much.

He has like you questioned the morals of this, but he's never had so much disposable income and has been paying double on his mortgage . His wife also makes him make a monthly donation to charity for their "karma" lol

If he could see the misery they cause the suicides that are a result of the addiction, he would realise a monthly donation to charity will not offset the damage he is contributing too, having said that, if he does not do it, someone else will.

The only time I was kind of mad at the bookies during my dark days, was when I went in a bookmakers clearly drunk and had about £1300.00 on me in cash for some reason, I did the lot in about an 2 hours. Someone should have stopped me, as I was going up to the counter giving them about £300 a time to load onto the crack machines, duty of care, I am not angry drunk, and I never ever got angry at staff or the machines when I lost, it is what it is and I was the fool, so I was upset in the morning that someone, did not even say, Oi mate, really...

Bookies are there to take your money end of, I have the problem so do millions of others, and they take advantage of that.
Having said that, I now keep off the crack and stick to the odd football and horse race (flat only).

 

[Stat Brother]

The radio this morning are reporting someone dropped £23,000 in 20 minutes online with William Hill.

Evil evil people. (And I like a flutter - when I can afford it)

 

[Doc Lynam]

There is a theory that addictions are basically the same, the pay off in all cases being shame. That is what the addict is seeking to replicate a feeling that has usually been with them, consciously or unconsciously from childhood. Just a theory but one that I agree with. In this case winning is just an obstacle to the real goal.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

See William Hill been fined heavily and was considered serious enough to suspend its license over allowing huge deposits without checking affordability amongst other checks(money laundering).

If you read my posts on pages 4/5/6 having worked for them, you’ll see I’m totally unsurprised by this. I would “Ha-Ha” them but the bastards will simply recoup that fine by not giving a pay rise (common practice by them as unions are not recognised)

PS apologies for my flounce on a previous thread a little while back, as they say, don’t post when pissed. Hopefully they’ll be a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree (you need to be a certain age!)

 

[Insel affe]

There is a theory that addictions are basically the same, the pay off in all cases being shame. That is what the addict is seeking to replicate a feeling that has usually been with them, consciously or unconsciously from childhood. Just a theory but one that I agree with. In this case winning is just an obstacle to the real goal.

This, and I am aware, which makes me weak.

 

[A1X]

See William Hill been fined heavily and was considered serious enough to suspend its license over allowing huge deposits without checking affordability amongst other checks(money laundering).

Not fined heavily enough. Sooner all these bastard companies are shut down the better.

 

[Cornwallboy]

The radio this morning are reporting someone dropped £23,000 in 20 minutes online with William Hill.

Evil evil people. (And I like a flutter - when I can afford it)

Nobody forced that person to gamble 23k in 20 minutes, the bookies aren't moral guardians, they provide an optional service. If this person had made a massive profit on their investment would they have moaned about the bookies?

 

[Stat Brother]

Nobody forced that person to gamble 23k in 20 minutes, the bookies aren't moral guardians, they provide an optional service. If this person had made a massive profit on their investment would they have moaned about the bookies?

I don't know that they did moan.
For all I know they were very happy with their money laundering.

The point being such a situation shouldn't be possible with appropriate safeguards.

 

[Badger Boy]

Nobody forced that person to gamble 23k in 20 minutes, the bookies aren't moral guardians, they provide an optional service. If this person had made a massive profit on their investment would they have moaned about the bookies?

This thread probably isn't for you.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Nobody forced that person to take heroin in 20 minutes, the dealers aren't moral guardians, they provide an optional service. If this person had enjoyed a great high on their heroin would they have moaned about the dealer?

 

[herecomesaregular]

I've had a few issues with gambling. Still in profit but much less than I was. I don't complain about it but the regulation in this country (that was relaxed by a Labour government, sadly) is very inadequate. In my personal experience I've found that William Hill is the least safety conscious, the most unscrupulous and dangerous. They are to be avoided. Also agree with the earlier comment that gambling is an oddity in terms of addiction (smoking, alcohol, legal drugs, recreational drugs) in that it can seem entirely logical to continue and go bigger in a desperate attempt to stop (make back losses). You wouldn;t see a drug addict taking a big dose or a drinker a massive binge with the logic that this will help them stop.

 

[Mellotron]

Was chatting with a couple of friends about this just the other day.

There's never been an easier time to have easy, guilt/shame-free access to 3 common addictions - Gambling, Porn, Eating.

All of which are readily and easily available, encouraged by marketing, without much need to face the public;

Gambling - online/via your phone rather than having to go into a bookies and face people
Porn - available on phone rather than having to buy physical material
Food - drive-thru fast food eating means barely having to contact any other humans while stuffing your face

I hope all 3 will be much more heavily regulated at some point, but right now they're having a field day feeding people's addictions IMO. Sadly I think the situation will get worse before governments look to act, and generations to come will look back with shock that it was so easy to over indulge in each of these things. IMO.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Was chatting with a couple of friends about this just the other day.

There's never been an easier time to have easy, guilt/shame-free access to 3 common addictions - Gambling, Porn, Eating.

All of which are readily and easily available, encouraged by marketing, without much need to face the public;

Gambling - online/via your phone rather than having to go into a bookies and face people
Porn - available on phone rather than having to buy physical material
Food - drive-thru fast food eating means barely having to contact any other humans while stuffing your face

I hope all 3 will be much more heavily regulated at some point, but right now they're having a field day feeding people's addictions IMO. Sadly I think the situation will get worse before governments look to act, and generations to come will look back with shock that it was so easy to over indulge in each of these things. IMO.

Secret addictions are rife in today's society, I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Nobody forced that person to gamble 23k in 20 minutes, the bookies aren't moral guardians, they provide an optional service. If this person had made a massive profit on their investment would they have moaned about the bookies?

If this person had “made a massive profit on their investment” the account would be severely limited (in effect, closed) in a heartbeat.

Anyway the point is who can afford to bet £23k in 20 minutes? Simple safeguarding checks such as proof of income would endorse your comment should the punter be a Shipping Magnate or a Poker Playing owner of a Premier League club. Sadly this individual is as likely to be (for example) a carer that has fleeced their senile patient, a major drug dealer, that builder that buggered off on day one of building that extension or a “financial advisor” that has just emptied your pension pot.

You appear on the surface to have little sympathy for gambling addicts, that’s your choice however if you equally don’t give a shit about the victims of the aforementioned criminal types, that indeed is putting it mildly, a poor show