Full national lockdown (not education) 4/11 - 1/12 possible

[Hampster Gull]

Obviously I feel for thosed forced to work or starve. That, happening in the UK, is a national disgrace. I know everyone keeps on saying HMG are damned if the do and damned if they don't, but if they are presiding knowingly over a situation where people are not financially supported and have no choice other than to go to work and risk their lives, Boris and his shower should resign now.

The government should be financially supporting the economy far more so than now, that takes some heat out of the situation. I wouldn’t have changed the previous furlough scheme, and I now would find ways to support some of those excluded such as the self employed. I say this from a typical stance that less government is good. So we run up more collective debt, we can at a later date erode through inflation or pay over a century or so.

On your earlier post on lecturing, my two boys are at Uni. The one in the second year is doing all online and knows it’s suboptimal, particularly seminars, but accepts it, they get the lecturer risk as well. And an amazing level of compliance, one fo his house as positivism the others not but they all locked down. I am sure you’ll fight your corner of being forced back in, I’m sure you’ll win that one

 

[Weststander]

Johnson's handling of the Covid crisis has been half arsed at best. At the start the UK only went into full lockdown about 2 or 3 weeks after most of Europe had already done so allowing the virus to proliferate at super spreader events like Cheltenham. This was then followed by the 'world class' test and trace fiasco and then the ill thought out Tier system. It seems that Johnson has always treated the virus as an annoyance or distraction preventing him from doing other government business. He must now be casting an eye over the pond at the US Election next week which has really become a referendum on the Trump Administrations handling of Covid and realizing at some stage he will be judged in the same way

We went into lockdown 8 days after the French lockdown (theirs was ignored the first weekend). They were a couple of weeks ahead of us on the curve. There are high CV19 death rates per 1m metrics in France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands and the other UK nations. The UK governments followed the same lockdown path of all those European nations.

Throughout the spring the 4 UK governments faced a huge lockdown pushback from airlines, airports, business, CV19 deniers, newly self declared libertarians, sport. Yet they stuck with lockdowns that worked.

Trump’s in a different universe when it comes to CV19. Denying it, deliberately only talking about Chaina, saying it was all over by late April, laughing at masks, encouraging armed idiots to ignore lockdowns and take back their states. Even last night making a speech where he said all the CV19 data collectors across were liars - in effect John Hopkins, CDC, every hospital across the land, by falsely denoting heart attack deaths as due to CV19.

Trump’s not on the same page as Johnson, or Sturgeon, Macron etc.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Anyone not convinced now this is a seasonal flu should look here: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

Cases rocketing in countless northern hemisphere countries from September, countries that have nothing like a common co-ordination of lockdowns, changes in rules and other reasons people have given for the recent increase in cases in the UK. Meanwhile as spring dawns in Brazil and Argentina, the numbers of new cases has plateaued or has fallen.

Seasonal flu. It is a seasonal flu.

This means the reason the numbers fell in spring probably had little to do with restrictions. They just.....fell.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The government should be financially supporting the economy far more so than now, that takes some heat out of the situation. I wouldn’t have changed the previous furlough scheme, and I now would find ways to support some of those excluded such as the self employed. I say this from a typical stance that less government is good. So we run up more collective debt, we can at a later date erode through inflation or pay over a century or so.

On your earlier post on lecturing, my two boys are at Uni. The one in the second year is doing all online and knows it’s suboptimal, particularly seminars, but accepts it, they get the lecturer risk as well. And an amazing level of compliance, one fo his house as positivism the others not but they all locked down. I am sure you’ll fight your corner of being forced back in, I’m sure you’ll win that one

Cheers, mate.

All the best to you and your family

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Slightly odd one for me.

I was diagnosed with Hodkins Lymphoma at the age of 18. Caught it very early and after a 3 month course of chemo and radio made a full recovery.

I am now 39 (say 30’s) and received a government vulnerability letter as part of lockdown 1 despite being given the all clear some 21 years ago .

I have taken precautions and not socialised on a great scale and have worked from home (office work) throughout and will not be going back until next March. I have always worn a mask when entering any commercial building.

I remember the consultant telling me at the time of treatment that living on a third of my immune systems for 3 months would actually strengthen it above normal in the long run. To a testament I never have really got ill to any extent since and rarely have a cold, flu or cough or any other low level symptoms.

However I am beginning to wonder based on my age whether I am susceptible to the virus at a greater risk or have I been put into a group based on the NHS sweeping system (where records are tagged (cancer as an example) and never retrospectively removed?

I guess there is no way of actually knowing (The NHS are rightly non committal)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LamieRobertson]

Thank you for asking.

I guess she has what is being called Long Covid. She has been left breathless and not being able to walk up inclines, stairs etc, very tired and lethargic and has some nerve damage which means her left thumb is always painful and has problems with her left arm. She also developed more blood clots. The irony is that she caught COVID when she was an outpatient following her treatment for Lymphoma ( a blood cancer).

Last year she was diagnosed with Lymphoma, had two different types of chemo that did not work, 15 days of radiotherapy over last Christmas (at least she had the two days off) followed by a brand new treatment, she was first NHS patient in South East to have it. Process is called CAR-T where her blood T-cells are extracted then sent to the US for modification and then put back in. This was combined with another round of very high dosage chemo to lower her immune system. The cells are put back in and resulted in her body fighting them which resulted in her first visit to ICU. The lymphoma treatment has worked as the lumps have disappeared and scans are clear.

With the COVID she was in initially for 4 weeks including ICU , then another 2 weeks , then home then another 4 weeks. Most of the COVID treatment was done at the Royal Marsden and its clear to me that the cancer doctor's intervention was vital. They advised use of the steroid that later became well publicised.

All sounds a bit of a nitemare ....unfortunately hospitals seem a great place to catch things.....my father has been in hospital for seven weeks and two of the wards he’s been in have closed due to covid scares.

Wish you both well in her recovery

 

[The Wizard]

Presumably he ran out of characters to also say:

Throughout: Lots and lots of people saying "What's the fuss all about? Hospitals are empty. Rampaging packs of llama killed more people than Covid-19 this month. False positives. WITH Covid not OF Covid. T-cells. Herd immunity. We have to get back to normal and learn to live with it."

Hospitals across the majority of the U.K. are at normal capacity or below capacity - the north are struggling.
False positives are a real issue when you are doing 300000 tests a day
With COVID/Of COVID - I’m pretty sure everyone would like to know how many people actually died of the virus directly.
T-cells - they are real, and I suggest you learn more to understand, why you’ve included that I don’t know. If you’re dismissing T cells you are essentially dismissing a vaccine being a way out because we’ve seen immune antibodies decline in most people 4-8 weeks after infection which means a vaccine would be totally inefficient on a global scale.

And as for learning to live with it, whether or not you back Lockdown now, that’s a real possibility down the line and the sooner people realise a vaccine might never be the golden bullet the better.

 

[BLOCK F]

(Edit I just realised your post is not a reply to me. That said the same applies to me and the person to whom you were replying, so I'll not edit what I posted below.)

Indeed. Till I'm laid off at the drop of a hat, of course.

I'm not sure what your point is, though. Do you think I should just suck it up and go back to work? Nobody should be forced to work and catch Covid and die - that was half my point. The other half being everyone else should go back to normal life.

Obviously I feel for thosed forced to work or starve. That, happening in the UK, is a national disgrace. I know everyone keeps on saying HMG are damned if the do and damned if they don't, but if they are presiding knowingly over a situation where people are not financially supported and have no choice other than to go to work and risk their lives, Boris and his shower should resign now.

Hi Harry,
No, I don't think you should just suck it up. You can work from home and that is fine.
My point was that the person who posted was fortunate and that maybe his post came over as rather insensitive to those who are not in his position. Sort of, 'bollocks, if it's not safe for me to visit a non essential shop, then it's not safe for me to sit in an office at work. I'm going to work from home, whatever my employer wants."
I just pointed out that he was fortunate to have that choice.
For the record, I am fortunate that at 72, I am retired and can do f... all, my wife is self employed in the fitness industry and her business has taken a severe hit during this pandemic and it looks likely that she will have to shut again. Daughter is self employed and may well have to shut up shop. Number one son is a supply teacher and has had one day of work since March and number two son works for a multi national company in London and can work from home.
I do hope you will not be laid off at the drop of a hat, but it can happen to anybody. It happened to this old bugger, four times during my career. Each time I just had to pick myself up and get on with it.

 

[Weststander]

Any queues outside supermarkets?

This should trigger hoarding.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Hospitals across the majority of the U.K. are at normal capacity or below capacity - the north are struggling.
False positives are a real issue when you are doing 300000 tests a day
With COVID/Of COVID - I’m pretty sure everyone would like to know how many people actually died of the virus directly.
T-cells - they are real, and I suggest you learn more to understand, why you’ve included that I don’t know. If you’re dismissing T cells you are essentially dismissing a vaccine being a way out because we’ve seen immune antibodies decline in most people 4-8 weeks after infection which means a vaccine would be totally inefficient on a global scale.

And as for learning to live with it, whether or not you back Lockdown now, that’s a real possibility down the line and the sooner people realise a vaccine might never be the golden bullet the better.

Aye strange comments by the poster..T cells are very real and a necessary part of fighting this virus...and all points raised are valid and not ‘crackpot’

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Any queues outside supermarkets?

This should trigger hoarding.

Hoarding started when tiers announced few weeks ago - milk/toilet roll/kitchen roll/some tinned gods/aspirin

Arrows were out in the back last week/some already in place

 

[LamieRobertson]

Any queues outside supermarkets?

This should trigger hoarding.

MS food area very busy yesterday i was informed by the assistant that it was because of a potential lockdown .. this was 6pm ..now i know who was involved in the leak. ...apparently they are going to have a system for booking shopping slots nearer to XMas...via the internet ..wonder how many of the older age group that frequent MS will cope with that .....

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Never knew NSC had an expert on pandemic modelling but this is a first

But to be fair there is always different modelling available, that will contradict other research. You don’t need to be an expert.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Clamp]

Nobody has a clue how to handle this. Nobody knows if it’s flu season or covid. Expect endless, fumbled forms of lockdown until a working vaccine is found.
And then, wait for the next “pandemic”.
A shit-storm being helmed by the worst government in living memory.

 

[WilburySeagull]

I'm a selfish prick. Seriously?? For wanting to spend Christmas day with my partner and our 2 kids at home both of whom are dealing with sexual abuse at the hands of their uncle. The same as we do every year. A 5 year old and 8 year old who are going through absolute hell and all I'm.asking is to have the christmas we have had for the last 3 years. I really do not see what is wrong with that. We have no other family and if that makes me a selfish prick I will live with it. Cheers

It appears there is some misunderstanding here. If your Christmas is as you say 2 adults and 2 children surely you will be able to have it as usual? What aspect of a lockdown will stop you ?

 

[Beach Hut]

A shit-storm being helmed by the worst government in living memory.

Absolutely, a government that never led us into a futile war against weapons of mass destruction that never even existed causing the unnecessary death of military personnel

 

[Bozza]

Aye strange comments by the poster..T cells are very real and a necessary part of fighting this virus...and all points raised are valid and not ‘crackpot’

FFS - I'm not suggesting they are.

But, amongst a certain group of people, there are "get outs" to almost everything that is happening.

Problem: Lots of positive cases.
Answer: Lots of them will be false positives.

Problem: Lots of people in hospital with Covid-19.
Answer: They were in for something else and just happened to test positive whilst there.

Problem: lots of people reportedly dying of Covid-19:
Answer 1: WITH Covid-19, not OF Covid-19.
Answer 2: Someone could test positive with Covid-19 28 days ago, have no symptoms, and be knocked over by a child on a three-wheel scooter, go home and put a plaster on and suffer an extreme allergic reaction from the adhesive on the plaster and die and they'd be included as a Covid-19 death.

Problem: Only very few people have had Covid-19, so we have a large population of people with no immunity.
Answer: T-cell immunity.

It goes on and on and on. People who talk about T-cells today had never heard of them a year ago, yet suddenly they are spouting about them as if they are a world-leading virologist.

The latest one seems to the "well, it's flu season, isn't it?" Well, it's the start of the flu season, certainly, with the real bad stuff to come. Meanwhile we're already getting more hospitalisations today, in October, than we usually get in a BAD December.

[tweet]1322255390793498629[/tweet]

I really shouldn't bite. The deniers / excusers / "it's not that bad"-ers have a get-out to absolutely everything. I sincerely hope they are right. It's a massive ****ing gamble to pin the lives of millions of people on some of this stuff though.

 

[vegster]

Any queues outside supermarkets?

This should trigger hoarding.

I did a trip to Morrisons first thing and was told by a friend who works on the checkouts that it was manic Friday night. Fairly busy this morning, saw a oldish bloke with a trolley load that included 4x12 cans of Carling....that is desperate stockpiling!

 

[daveinplzen]

We have effing curfew at night here now

 

[Wardy's twin]

Hospitals across the majority of the U.K. are at normal capacity or below capacity - the north are struggling.
False positives are a real issue when you are doing 300000 tests a day
With COVID/Of COVID - I’m pretty sure everyone would like to know how many people actually died of the virus directly.
T-cells - they are real, and I suggest you learn more to understand, why you’ve included that I don’t know. If you’re dismissing T cells you are essentially dismissing a vaccine being a way out because we’ve seen immune antibodies decline in most people 4-8 weeks after infection which means a vaccine would be totally inefficient on a global scale.

And as for learning to live with it, whether or not you back Lockdown now, that’s a real possibility down the line and the sooner people realise a vaccine might never be the golden bullet the better.

My wife has had CAR-T treatment , T-Cells extracted and modified to attack the Lymphoma she had. Problem with fiddling with T-Cells is a) your immune system has to be supressed for re-inserted cells to work b) she and others who have had the treatment have bad major reactions ( CRS ) . It has worked though.