[Albion] Fulham vs Brighton & Hove Albion *** Official Match Thread ***

[Swansman]

Bearing in mind the ages of some of our 'unpolished diamond' of a squad, how long are we looking before the flawless gem appears?

Probably longer than most peoples 5 minute patience. Some of it depends what happens in transfer windows as well to get some breathing room for the younger players coming through. Potter is a patient man but if you continusly dont perform, you'll be replaced. A player like Neal Maupay is seriously in the danger zone of Potter saying "**** off, I'll find something better." To what extent this is possible depends on a lot of different things. I'm fairly sure the squad would have seen a larger overhaul in the summer if it was a normal non-covid summer, but it wasnt possible. You could say the polishing project was delayed.

 

[zefarelly]

Whilst I agree we have some rough diamonds to polish

we still have a few turds with sprinkles on.

Lets hope TB has a few good wins over the Christmas period.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Difference is Hughton had a very decent striker who would have probably scored all 3 chances that Wellbeck has missed in last 3 games...

 

[Wardy's twin]

We're, erm........different.....

CH had a polished turd of a squad to work with, GP got this unpolished diamond still mostly looking like a rock squad to work with. It is what it is, but I'd say the rock got a lot more potential in the long run than the turd. For now, survival is what matters and it wouldnt be any different with any other manager. Some people seriously overrate the current ability of the boys GP is working with.

Probably longer than most peoples 5 minute patience. Some of it depends what happens in transfer windows as well to get some breathing room for the younger players coming through. Potter is a patient man but if you continusly dont perform, you'll be replaced. A player like Neal Maupay is seriously in the danger zone of Potter saying "**** off, I'll find something better." To what extent this is possible depends on a lot of different things. I'm fairly sure the squad would have seen a larger overhaul in the summer if it was a normal non-covid summer, but it wasnt possible. You could say the polishing project was delayed.

Difference is Hughton had Murray who would have taken all 3 chances that Wellbeck has missed. Defence is no better the attack is worse. We do have some much better players e.g. LLana, Bissouma and Lamptey and March has been a revelation. Also as much as people said he didn't cut it AK was better than his replacement.

Think Maupay is already on his way.

 

[Guinness Boy]

CH had a polished turd of a squad to work with, GP got this unpolished diamond still mostly looking like a rock squad to work with. It is what it is, but I'd say the rock got a lot more potential in the long run than the turd. For now, survival is what matters and it wouldnt be any different with any other manager. Some people seriously overrate the current ability of the boys GP is working with.

I'm not sure I understand fully. How can we be overrating a better squad?

CH had a Championship quality squad with a couple of half decent additions in his first PL season but the boys who got us up deserved a crack at the big time and were still full of confidence from two great seasons in the Championship.

Since then we have added the good, the bad, the average and the ugly. Ali J, Locadia under bad, Webster under average along with Burn, Andone as the ugly, as in a player with real potential to do well if he just wasn't so crackers, and we might be filing Maupay there too by the looks of it. But Bissouma, Lamptey, White, Lallana (free), Welbeck (free) under good. I hope you're not suggesting that three players with massive potential who are already being looked at by big clubs (and in Lamptey's case came from there) and two ex-England internationals on a free are overrated by our fans. They are very good players. And four of them are exclusive to Potter.

Keeper has been the same for both managers. Possibly an issue.

So, I agree this squad has more potential but I think it is also far better than Hughton's "turd". And Hughton finishing in 16th and us being in 16th with the players mentioned above makes CH the better manager, doesn't it? (I'm not saying he is but this is another thing pointing to us under achieving at the moment)

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

Difference is Hughton had Murray who would have taken all 3 chances that Wellbeck has missed. Defence is no better the attack is worse. We do have some much better players e.g. LLana, Bissouma and Lamptey and March has been a revelation. Also as much as people said he didn't cut it AK was better than his replacement.

Think Maupay is already on his way.

I suspect a fresh Maupay will be brought back in for the Sheffield Utd game

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

People forget that the standard as a whole has improved in the PL in the 3.5 years we've been in it. Weaker teams have left to be replaced by slightly stronger teams. The likes of Leicester, Southampton, Wolves, and now West Ham have improved immensely. A third of the way through the season we have Man City 8th, Man Utd 9th and Arsenal 15th (Haha!). Unfortunately for us its seems our standard has stayed about the same.

Its interesting listening to pre-match build up when you can. Many studio commentators lament that we have Llalana and Welbeck and the fact THEY must see something in Brighton otherwise they would not have signed.

Back to the Fulham match, boy that was a congested midfield and a bit like schoolboy footie at times with 5 players from each side around the ball. Think the handball decision was fair in that it slowed the pace of the ball and dropped at his foot. I actually thought it was going to be ruled out for offside considering Llalana was actually offside when the ball was initially crossed into the penalty area but the change the rule so many times im confused as hell.

I seriously think that the Sheff United game is now our biggest game in our PL history as it could well shape the rest of the season. No i dont think Potter will go but the players confidence will be shot if we manage to lose and end up in the relegation zone for the first time in our PL history.

 

[dazzer6666]

I suspect a fresh Maupay will be brought back in for the Sheffield Utd game

Me too - it's hilarious how every time someone is left out for a game, or even a run of games they have either had a 'bust up' or are 'on their way'...........

 

[Wardy's twin]

I suspect a fresh Maupay will be brought back in for the Sheffield Utd game

Hope so...

 

[zefarelly]

Hopefully a reboot is/was all he needed.

 

[BadFish]

Id like to see us stick with a team for a few games let them build some partnerships and learn to play with each other.

I don't hold with all this switching and changing.

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[One Teddy Maybank]

Probably longer than most peoples 5 minute patience. Some of it depends what happens in transfer windows as well to get some breathing room for the younger players coming through. Potter is a patient man but if you continusly dont perform, you'll be replaced. A player like Neal Maupay is seriously in the danger zone of Potter saying "**** off, I'll find something better." To what extent this is possible depends on a lot of different things. I'm fairly sure the squad would have seen a larger overhaul in the summer if it was a normal non-covid summer, but it wasnt possible. You could say the polishing project was delayed.

All very fair, but this is Potters squad now, the buck very much rests with him IMO.

Hopefully Maupay can return stronger.


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[boik]

Id like to see us stick with a team for a few games let them build some partnerships and learn to play with each other.

I don't hold with all this switching and changing.

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The teams that go on a run do tend to have limited changes. Liverpool last year and Leicester in their miracle year were both pretty much unchanged.

 

[Swansman]

I'm not sure I understand fully. How can we be overrating a better squad?

CH had a Championship quality squad with a couple of half decent additions in his first PL season but the boys who got us up deserved a crack at the big time and were still full of confidence from two great seasons in the Championship.

Since then we have added the good, the bad, the average and the ugly. Ali J, Locadia under bad, Webster under average along with Burn, Andone as the ugly, as in a player with real potential to do well if he just wasn't so crackers, and we might be filing Maupay there too by the looks of it. But Bissouma, Lamptey, White, Lallana (free), Welbeck (free) under good. I hope you're not suggesting that three players with massive potential who are already being looked at by big clubs (and in Lamptey's case came from there) and two ex-England internationals on a free are overrated by our fans. They are very good players. And four of them are exclusive to Potter.

Keeper has been the same for both managers. Possibly an issue.

So, I agree this squad has more potential but I think it is also far better than Hughton's "turd". And Hughton finishing in 16th and us being in 16th with the players mentioned above makes CH the better manager, doesn't it? (I'm not saying he is but this is another thing pointing to us under achieving at the moment)

The players are overall better footballers with the only questionmark being the striker position. What I'm saying though is that with the current squad you are going to get more 3 or 4 rating performances as well as more 8 or 9 rating performances, but not the same predictable "usually 6/10 every week" that you get with a squad of older, more experienced players.

This is why I think people overrate them: people expect some kind of consistency that just isnt going to be there. Its a rollercoaster at the moment. And as for Welbeck, he is a good striker, but he is pretty ****ing far from the guy carrying the team and goal production as some make him out to be. Someone wrote "When Welbeck go that chance against Villa, I just knew he was going to score" - which is frankly ridicilous. Welbeck is a well-known opportunity waster. He always was.

Maupay is a question mark. I still think he can come good but its a lot of ups and downs. Connolly is very promising. Trossard, we'll see. Welbeck, as I mentioned, is ok. But the fact is that currently the team is lacking a striker or winger able to somewhat consistently carry this team. And that is something CH had but GP doesnt have. And it is a major negative that cancels out a lot of positives.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The players are overall better footballers with the only questionmark being the striker position. What I'm saying though is that with the current squad you are going to get more 3 or 4 rating performances as well as more 8 or 9 rating performances, but not the same predictable "usually 6/10 every week" that you get with a squad of older, more experienced players.

This is why I think people overrate them: people expect some kind of consistency that just isnt going to be there. Its a rollercoaster at the moment. And as for Welbeck, he is a good striker, but he is pretty ****ing far from the guy carrying the team and goal production as some make him out to be. Someone wrote "When Welbeck go that chance against Villa, I just knew he was going to score" - which is frankly ridicilous. Welbeck is a well-known opportunity waster. He always was.

Maupay is a question mark. I still think he can come good but its a lot of ups and downs. Connolly is very promising. Trossard, we'll see. Welbeck, as I mentioned, is ok. But the fact is that currently the team is lacking a striker or winger able to somewhat consistently carry this team. And that is something CH had but GP doesnt have. And it is a major negative that cancels out a lot of positives.

Many themes there that are similar to a conversation I am having with [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] on another thread. Below is what I replied. Saves me typing it again.......

If you look at the strikers we've had who have been more hit than miss in front of goal recently - Ulloa, Hemed, Zamora The Return and Murray - they all lack one obvious thing. It's the same thing that Maupay and Connolly do have.

If you want someone who can finish like Kane (or even like Murray) but with Maupay's movement and aggression and Lamptey's pace you're talking waaaaaay out of our price range, if such a player even exists - maybe only Mane or Son, nether of who are "9s". CH went for the slow, hold up play and reliable finish of the one or two chances per game we'd create. Potter has taken that down and gone for pace and movement up front but we can all see it results in more chances missed than taken. That's a coaching decision. And that's even before you start asking if we are practicing finishing regularly? I assume we must be but our attacking players don't quite seem to have the confidence, calmness or muscle memory that would come with that, for some reason.

 

[peterward]

I'm not sure I understand fully. How can we be overrating a better squad?

CH had a Championship quality squad with a couple of half decent additions in his first PL season but the boys who got us up deserved a crack at the big time and were still full of confidence from two great seasons in the Championship.

Since then we have added the good, the bad, the average and the ugly. Ali J, Locadia under bad, Webster under average along with Burn, Andone as the ugly, as in a player with real potential to do well if he just wasn't so crackers, and we might be filing Maupay there too by the looks of it. But Bissouma, Lamptey, White, Lallana (free), Welbeck (free) under good. I hope you're not suggesting that three players with massive potential who are already being looked at by big clubs (and in Lamptey's case came from there) and two ex-England internationals on a free are overrated by our fans. They are very good players. And four of them are exclusive to Potter.

Keeper has been the same for both managers. Possibly an issue.

So, I agree this squad has more potential but I think it is also far better than Hughton's "turd". And Hughton finishing in 16th and us being in 16th with the players mentioned above makes CH the better manager, doesn't it? (I'm not saying he is but this is another thing pointing to us under achieving at the moment)

We are definitely under achieving. Every commentator says the same thing and theyre all correct, we create chances but we dont take them or are profligate in front of goal........ we have genuine pace in the team but often the ball movement and pace is not quick enough, too slow of thought, the finishing is clearly not good enough.

I was really happy to get a striker of Welbecks pedigree in the club and so far the injury problems havent manifested, but Jury is definitely out on him, as his misses in last games have been poor, I do agree that Murray 2 seasons ago scores both. Not sure Ali J is in the same category as Locadia! file Locadia in the Barn Door Billy column..... Ali J is though massively inconsistent. Both were not worth the sums we paid

Hughton kept the championship defence (except Ryan) and it was the bedrock of the team, I dont think Trossard is an upgrade on Knockaert, Propper is powder puff and lightweight without enough goals. Bissouma and Izzy were the 2 decent quality additions in Hughtons time since we got promoted. Also think Andone for the price we paid is worth the money for his ability, its not ability that lets him down and he may well come good in the end.......

So all in all for the sums we have spent you have to conclude the recruitment at the club has been really poor, Biss, Izzy and Lamptey are the players from other clubs we've paid fees for who added a lot of genuine quality, the rest like White, Sanchez, Alzate are from our youth system.... the other players and the list is long, are generally bang average, poor or broadly inconsistent to a degree, and we've spent hundreds of millions on it.

As you say its different, but the club isn't actually moving forward. Its a more polished relegation battle.

 

[OzMike]

Trossard should be fined his match fee for absconding from the game.

 

[Si Gull]

Id like to see us stick with a team for a few games let them build some partnerships and learn to play with each other.

I don't hold with all this switching and changing.

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I think rotation is fine if you have a squad of top class players, on form, that are able to adapt quickly to the changes. I don't believe that our squad is at that level so would prefer to see continuity so that we can build a strong, cohesive team capable of stringing together some consistent performances.

 

[blue-shifted]

]People forget that the standard as a whole has improved in the PL in the 3.5 years we've been in it. Weaker teams have left to be replaced by slightly stronger teams.[/B] The likes of Leicester, Southampton, Wolves, and now West Ham have improved immensely. A third of the way through the season we have Man City 8th, Man Utd 9th and Arsenal 15th (Haha!). Unfortunately for us its seems our standard has stayed about the same.

Its interesting listening to pre-match build up when you can. Many studio commentators lament that we have Llalana and Welbeck and the fact THEY must see something in Brighton otherwise they would not have signed.

Back to the Fulham match, boy that was a congested midfield and a bit like schoolboy footie at times with 5 players from each side around the ball. Think the handball decision was fair in that it slowed the pace of the ball and dropped at his foot. I actually thought it was going to be ruled out for offside considering Llalana was actually offside when the ball was initially crossed into the penalty area but the change the rule so many times im confused as hell.

I seriously think that the Sheff United game is now our biggest game in our PL history as it could well shape the rest of the season. No i dont think Potter will go but the players confidence will be shot if we manage to lose and end up in the relegation zone for the first time in our PL history.

What you say is true, but the effect of this is less important than the fact that every club is getting £100s millions of TV money.

So PL clubs can outbid and outpay players from all (but about 7)clubs in Europe

The effect of this is that if the first placed team from 2016 played the first place team from 2020, the 2020 team would be superior. The same would apply if the 5th placed teams from 2016 and 2020 played each other and 12th placed and so on.

 

[dazzer6666]

Many themes there that are similar to a conversation I am having with [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] on another thread. Below is what I replied. Saves me typing it again.......

If you look at the strikers we've had who have been more hit than miss in front of goal recently - Ulloa, Hemed, Zamora The Return and Murray - they all lack one obvious thing. It's the same thing that Maupay and Connolly do have.

If you want someone who can finish like Kane (or even like Murray) but with Maupay's movement and aggression and Lamptey's pace you're talking waaaaaay out of our price range, if such a player even exists - maybe only Mane or Son, nether of who are "9s". CH went for the slow, hold up play and reliable finish of the one or two chances per game we'd create. Potter has taken that down and gone for pace and movement up front but we can all see it results in more chances missed than taken. That's a coaching decision. And that's even before you start asking if we are practicing finishing regularly? I assume we must be but our attacking players don't quite seem to have the confidence, calmness or muscle memory that would come with that, for some reason.

....but [MENTION=33581]THPP[/MENTION] categorically told me that you can’t coach strikers [emoji23][emoji23]

Part of the ‘rotation’ has been forced by unhelpful injuries - Lallana and Maupay most recently, both of whom would have probably started most if not all games if 100%.